The truth about lighting

[mojoreef]

Thanks for your comments Mark, that is what I try to do anyway.

The one thing that I DO really like that Calfo spoke of is that there is such a thing as `overkill' with lights IMO. OR rather, in a well-balanced system, maybe a 400w over a small tank doesn't really make things better.

Dead on, for sure. It doesnt even have to be a small tank. the food that is made by a corals zoox go to feed both the coral and the aglae, they recycle to each other. Some lighting systems can blow a coral away with to much light, the coral will react, by ejecting some of its zoox to slow down the food being imported, the same can be said about the opposite, . Most MH lighting out today will work in regards growing this type of corals, combinations will work and so on. it usually just boils down to what the individual person like as a overall look of the tank.


MIke

[mojoreef]

Scott strong post. folks like Jb, Sanjay and Dana (among others) have done some great testing, and I myself alway refer to it. Thier are alot of scientific testing that has been done on the nature end of the game also, I find trying to match the two togther usually brings about the best conclutions.

Mike

[Scooterman]

Apples to apples, they have nice work but like you just said you have to match a combined effort to get a commonality. I never seen a complete package, have you? Heck, we never seen a complete DSB package either, more or less have to combine them to make your own conclusions. I just think every one I’ve read although through, lots of information; I still feel there are parts left out in each of them.

[Craig Manoukian]

Originally posted by Scooterman
Our goal here is to provide the best home for our hobby & still not blow our budgets in getting stuff not needed or just wasting cash on new fads, trying to separate fact from fiction.

A big amen to that Scooter!

[middletonmark]

Well put Scooterman ... the DSB comparison IMO is dead on. People have all sorts of things work great for them ... I was amazed last week to visit a 250w reef tank of SPS and realize my 175w tank had far better color ... maybe even growth. I was expecting to seem blown away ... but somehow my `low power' MH SPS reef is just rockin' for me.
Same with the DSB ... some can't get it to work for the life of them ... some have great success ... but for either of these examples the effective parts I don't think are understood or `put together'. There just is no equation we have to say x_lighting works with y_equipment/setup and z_livestock ... to get a healthy tank. So many variables, but even then there seems to be a lot of `mystery factors' IMO.

I think discussions like these get us closer to understanding some of them ... and seeing at least part of these `equations' in clear light. Probably will never be able to put them all together ... but if we have a better clue how corals use light [and food] ... at least part of the puzzle is together.

[mojoreef]

Well see thats kinda the concept I am trying to bring to this forum. I could just come out and say 10K ushio ore the best, and DSB's are better then sliced bread, anyone could and has done that. But if we dig a little bit deeper, and explain what the corals needs are or how the things work inside of each aspect, then no one has to give an opinion, the facts are laid out, anyone can look at them and make a simple educated choice. All things come with pros and cons, from lighting choices to filtrations methods and so on. If you know how to they work, then you can have a better understanding how how to pick them, maintain them, and have them work for the betterment of your creatures. Its as simple as that.

MIke

[tankgirl]

Mike, I trust your 'opinions' more than most people's 'science'.

[Maxx]

I don't he looks kinda shady to me.
I think I saw Mike w/ an Aqua-ecolizer the other day........
*Things that make ya go Hmmm......*
Nick

[dgasmd]

Actinics do provide some measure of light that is usefull to corals. I think one of the points Dana Riddle may have been trying to make is that actinics do more for us than for the corals in the grand scheme of things. Regardless of the MH used for growth (well, almost) the corals will grow the color it has. You switch lighting and they look either better of worse to your eyes. The pigments that flouresce and cause colors perceived by our eyes have been there all along. The difference is that now the different MH kelvin rating may make them flouresce more or less. That is why actinics always make corals look so much better. It is not that they have some magic that make the corals produce more colors, they just bring them out because it allows then to flouresce more. I know this because he gave a talk to our local club about 1 year ago and he went over this and it caused a lot of questions and such. By the way, as you can see, he made it out of the meeting alive though.
Of course, even if you don't use actinics, you will see a change. In some corals faster than others. It does take time for the coral to adjust its priduction of pigments and other things based on what lighting it has. Once it gets adjusted to it again, the colors seem to settle and continue.

[Scooterman]

Originally posted by dgasmd
perceived by our eyes have been there all along. That is why actinics always make corals look so much better. It is not that they have some magic that make the corals produce more colors, they just bring them out because it allows then to flouresce more..

And they fluoresce more also...LOL Oh yea, he just said that.
Using fluorescent Actinic as a supplement was the way to go once upon a time but now a new breed of MH's (XM,10k,15k 20k etc.) allows us to have the best of both worlds but still can't be dimmed. Creating a dusk and dawn with PC (HO T5 is a PC by the way), VHO Is nice.
Mike, I like your way of thinking, I'm lucky to of discovered the people of RS. Maybe I'm wrong but thinking one local group of threads the cover the basis of what you just posted would be ideal. I mean a place I can tell a newbie ok, start here for the beginning, for there with just a minimal of links as not to throw then off to much, make it gradual in steps of learning, so when the time comes I can build my new tank, oh I mean the newbie's can have a written set of guidelines to see for themselves like you stated but this would cross over from basic set-ups, then BB or DSB etc..then Lighting, other equipment filtration chemicals & testing etc, BUT all is started at one common point, the beginning, with just one line to the next step (of information) etc.. Call it The Steps!

[tankgirl]

Did anyone answer that earlier question about; if actinics do nothing for corals why do they stay open when only actinics are on?

Also, if actinics don't do anything, why are we supposed to change them every 6 months?

[Boomer]

Scotter

The only testing I've seen is hobbyist related as for as PAR ratings, seems the manufactures make these and can't actually state a complete data sheet of their products, they always seem to leave off part of the total performance ratings.

I kn0w what you mean but you have to remember something. 99.9 % of the **actual manufactures** could care less about PAR values, as it as 0 merit to them. The only ones interested in such vaues is us and we occupy about < 1 % of all light bulbs sold. There has been a actual manufactrue here or there that has had PAR levels, as they are trying to direct these lights towards reefers. Furthermore, measuring PAR is not an easy task, one needs to know what they are doing and the equipment is not cheap. Many of the tests you have seen in artilces is from rented equipment. We are lucky to have guys like Jb, Harker, Sanjay and Dana around. Finally, a SED (Spectral Energ Distibution) curve pretty much tells you what you get.

TG

Did anyone answer that earlier question about; if actinics do nothing for corals why do they stay open when only actinics are on?

Yes, I did

Maxx

I think I saw Mike w/ an Aqua-ecolizer the other day........

Mike has always been my partner in crime But no more, he has gone to the dog

UPS has arrived

[tankgirl]

Boomey, Thanks! I went back but still couldn't find it? Found only this;

Actinic lights were not introduced into this hobby to make the tank look nice, that is a myth. The were brought in for the reason that they produced blue light, based on the fact that most of the light is absorbed in the first meter of water, leaving mostly blue behind. This however, is more on the order of the deep ocean where the water is blue.

So, you're saying that corals DO use actinics light, right?

[mojoreef]

Boomer the equalizers are for my wife, they help alot with wrinkles....Hmmm man I hope she dont see this post or your delivery will be the least of my problems rofl

Mike

[Boomer]

Yes. The purpose of the lights was to suppliment lights that were low in the blue spectrum. Back then, ,"olden days" we only had MH with about 5000K. Some fluors's were 6500K. JB (John Burleson) the American Reef God was th first to use them. They came from the photgraphic industry. Later came the 5500K Venture MH, to replace lower K MH and 6000K MV. Two or three years later I helped Dr. Perry Thraser, from Light Sources, introduce his Tri-Phosphor fluoro's in the late 80's. You know, the ones that everyone sells with the built in relector, they were all made by his company. They also make actinics. Shortly after, I introduced the Iwasaki MH Still King of the MH. And Perry's lights are still being sold by the ton. These lights were first introduced/sold by Ultraviolet Resources International, along with the Vossloh waterproof end caps I found. No, I did not make any money, I just wanted this stuff avalible to the hobbist. UR does not make lamps, many of their lamps are LS with their name on them, just as other Tri-Phosphor lamps made by LS have their name on them.

Ligfht Sources

Ultraviolet Resorces International