Nano Craze

[Rougiem]

Originally Posted by Witfull

what does that make me?..lol,,,a relic~~~

Ahhh...no Maybe something else Witty? Dinoreefasaurus?

Cheers!

[Charlie97L]

Yes, Wit, I agree, I'm not trying to offend nanos! I'm about to join the ranks, but I'm well aware of the work involved, and I'm enjoying the challenge of trying to make the nano as automated as possible... that's not to say i won't be fooling around with it a lot, I just like all the technical goodies.

I think another issue is that the nanos tend to draw in the younger hobbyists who's patience and attention spans may not be developed (at least initially, i know of several spectacular reefers that are teenagers in my local club) to the point this hobby requires. they just don't understand that it takes 3-4 weeks or longer before you can put fish in.

I akin nanos to a car phenomenon I witnessed a few years ago, which was (not to get too technical) adding a turbocharger to a motor that wasn't built to take it, without making the motor stronger first. You spend wayyy less money just throwing it on there, but when the motor dies, it often takes the turbo with it, then not only do you have to buy a new motor, but a new turbo as well, and now you're scared, so you beef it up too, you end up spending 3x what it would have cost to just beef up the motor initially.

I mean, not to be elistist, but reefing is an expensive hobby. It's misleading to say that you can get into even a nano cheaply... yet the companies do it. I like nanotuners.com because the offer nano "packages" and then you REALLY see how $$$ it can be to set up even a 12 gallon with all the extra equipment/mods needed to make it effective for reefing. I wanted a SW tank badly in college, but I just did FW to tide me over. It was cool, but not as cool as SW.

I'm glad when new reefers come here, and ask questions, and then actually listen to what the more experienced people have to say. I know the experienced people here have been a huge help to me so far.

[ReefLady]

Oy - I'm with Wit ! ;-) I think I'm going on 17 years - ouch.

[Gina]

Our LFS has a couple of these nano tanks set up as soon as you walk into the door. I have to admit, they caught my attention. They are beautiful to look at.
I changed my mind about having one real quick when I did a little research on how to keep one. Too small an area where things can go wrong real quick.
I applaud people who have stunning nanos and keep em that way!
People just need to be informed that what they can keep in one is limited and if they are looking to keep alot of fish and corals they should probably look into a bigger tank.

But, here's the question.....what should the LFS do if the customer insist on getting one even though the employee of the store knows they don't know what they are getting in to?

[mps9506]

Originally Posted by Gina

But, here's the question.....what should the LFS do if the customer insist on getting one even though the employee of the store knows they don't know what they are getting in to?

Pretty simple.. Tell em what they are getting into. Some folks will listen and some folks won't. Goes with the territory

[dobejazz]

Originally Posted by Witfull

i dont want this thread to offend Nano keepers,,,but to let them know the limitations. ive seen some stunning nanos,,,tighaboy for one, but the knowledge and "eye" have to be there.

Kelli, im not saying success cant be had for beginners,,,but if you looked at the average,,,odds are against success with a smaller tank. granted a few people may feel offended initially by this thread, "hey i have a nano and its great you all are idiots", but many here are looking for help beyond the LFS, they want to be part of this world,,,,and together we can help them.

this hobby has many opinions, I, personally love hearing all sides. i do voice mine,,,but i will let any one stand on the soapbox and applaud them for speaking up ansd sharing theirs,,,this his how we learn......


so,,,back to proper stocking of nanos...i pictured a tank,,,thoughts,,what would be best?

Witty I agree 100 percent nano's are tough and I am not offended at at by the thread I feel it is a great discussion and hopefully will help people researching a nano tank before they purchase. I had attempted salt water tanks probably about 15 years ago with great failure And saw the nano as an opportunity to get back in the hobby.

The LFS I purchased it from was not as upfront about the limitations of the nanocube when I bought it but with research I have a very nice softy tank.

[Witfull]

having redirected another thread to this one form this thread.
Canopy Lights for Nanocube

lets talk about nano lighting. most come with barely adequate lighting for low light sessile animals. that has created a whole new market for upgrades. for the true reefer this is our playland and love tinker and create. but im not adressing us, my concern is for the walk in the door customer. as Gina mentioned. you see them as you walk in the door. prominately placed to catch your eye as you walk in. they are great looking....but lets think a little bit deeper and ask why do they look good. could it be that they have someone there everyday, one of us tinkerers that love to play with tanks? my thinking, yes. but on to the subject of light. they have the stock lights. do they have any other suplimenting light? most LFS have big windows up front. hmm,,,natural sunlight supliment. look up, what do you see? a ceiling full of flouresent lights,,,could they help? they may not be proper spectrum but its light enhancement.

any other thoughts?

[dfraley_23]

I agree with bigger the tank the easier to maintain but who really has $1,000 or more to invest in a large aquarium?I know I dont right now.A 55g tank or larger is great and I wish I had one but people keep it in the budget.I have a 29g reef tank because I dont have a fortune to spend on a large one.You shouldnt hate to sell them because people cant afford a large one,happy with the small nano or dont have the room for bigger!!Or maybe I misunderstand what message your trying to get through.

[Witfull]

yes, bigger tanks are easier. smaller tanks have some inherrent difficulties. and the new nano cubes have even more. these include, poor filtration, no place to put a skimmer, poor lighting (as advertised animals that can be kept in them) poor surface to depth ratio, and in quite a few instances, poor construction.

i personally feel we as hobbyist have a first and foremost responsibility to the animals. the "Industry" should also have this as their priority. but oft times it appears that its not. we have to be self-regulating,,,or government could very easily step in. there have already been several bills introduced to Congress to highly regulate the industry.

after Nemo came out there was a serious run on LFS' for tanks. most were from parents wanting to appease their children who wanted Nemo and dory. as i mentioned earlier, Tetra Corp went on National TV exploiting how easy it was. i shudder to think how many fish died in that movement.

i think its absolutely wrong to be selling 5g and less tanks to people as a saltwater tank, and promoting it as easy. in one LFS i actually saw them selling right on the register, the "NEW 1g desk reef" it had a chunk of LR in it a percula clown, a scooter blenny, a goniopora and a colt coral.

as i said earlier, this isnt ment to offend dedicated reefers, but to bring this to the forefront of everyone mind. proper stocking, neccesary daily attention, and commitment to the animals.

[mps9506]

Originally Posted by dfraley_23

I agree with bigger the tank the easier to maintain but who really has $1,000 or more to invest in a large aquarium?I know I dont right now.A 55g tank or larger is great and I wish I had one but people keep it in the budget.I have a 29g reef tank because I dont have a fortune to spend on a large one.You shouldnt hate to sell them because people cant afford a large one,happy with the small nano or dont have the room for bigger!!Or maybe I misunderstand what message your trying to get through.

The problem is many people that purchase nano tanks don't know what they are getting into. The nano reef is more of a challange to maintain than a larger reef tank, whether it be 30 gallons 40 gallons or 100 gallons.
People need to know the filtration and size is not suitable to keep more than one or two of the smallest saltwater fish, and the lighting is not suitable to keep more than the lowest light demanding of all corals.
I don't hate to sell nano reefs, in fact I have a sunlit nano tank on my desk next to my bed. However, there are no fish in it, just a hermit some algae, a mushroom and a majano anemone. Most customers come into my store to start SW want an anemone and a clown fish (I hate it, but it's the truth). I am NOT selling these people a nano cube and telling them that they can throw an anemone in it. They might end up going to PetCo down the street where they are told they can keep any coral under flo. lights. But they will be back once they realize they were given a bunch of cow poop.

[Witfull]

thh, a stanard 29g is better than any cube tank. surface area vs. depth ratio is better, ability to add needed equipment is available. but limitations are still there. and all to many times....customers are sold a bill of goods of emtpy promises.i am all in favor of people comimg into the hobby. but in the same reguard, i am repsonsible for diseminating information and the truth. the latest craze of Nanos fo the neophite is a deathtrap to animals, and that i wish to change.

not to sound elite, but...this hobby has a required monetary investment. its not something to be ventured into lightly. lives are at stake. i hate killing things, and yes i have killed. but through this i have gained knowedge. learn from my mistakes,,,it benefits every one,,,,you, your money, and the lives of creatures. i wil continue to make mistakes,,,but over-simpifying things to the novice discourages them and as a whole makes every one look bad.

Rule #1 Responsibilty. an Animal was taken from its home and entrusted to you. we must not only take its survival to heart, but its genetic propegation. who knows,,,with environmental changes,,,,we may very well have the future in our tanks.

[cheeks69]

Excellent thread and excellent points. I wouldn't recommend a Nano to anyone who doesn't have any SW experience. With such a small volume of water any amount of evaporation will have an effect on salinity levels which will affect inverts immediately. Another thing I notice with some of these types of tanks is the cover/lid which contains the filtration, it prevents evaporation leading to temperature and gas exhange problems.

People need to know the filtration and size is not suitable to keep more than one or two of the smallest saltwater fish, and the lighting is not suitable to keep more than the lowest light demanding of all corals.

Stocking levels of fish are probably the biggest problem. IME knowing the limits of your bio-load is something that has to be learned with time very few beginners understand this. SW fish is what got me into the hobby and it took a long time and alot of fish deaths unfortunately to finally understand that.

[tinyreef]

Originally Posted by cheeks69

I wouldn't recommend a Nano to anyone who doesn't have any SW experience.

i used to take that position, but nowadays after seeing what some "newbies" can do with nano-reefing, i've changed my stance.

i've altered it to be: "i wouldn't recommend nano-reefing to anyone who doesn't have the patience to learn the hobby first."

because imo, whether you do traditional reefing or nano-reefing, ignorance will result in the same thing, tank crash or livestock loss. the difference between the two is the scale of monies involved. it's that economic difference that makes the average person think twice/give more thought/research more for the traditional reef. will the traditional reef has a slightly bigger cushion of error? sure, but the basic "oops" are still the same.

but allowing for the same amount of research and patience, i think anyone can succeed at nano-reefing or traditional reefing. while i would still agree that the arguement of the inherently high cost of traditional reefs should weed out the casual hobbyist it's not a likely scenario to force nano-reefers to pay a surcharge or something to that effect.

the push should be for educating the new hobbyist versus pushing them to larger tanks as historically advised. a small bit of information/education will be much more effective than having an extra 40-gallons of volume imho.

btw, i also don't agree that nanos are a fad. it's a viable niche that will likely outgrow the rest of the niches and imo dominate the hobby in the future, because it now makes reefing accessible to anyone. traditional reefing limited the audience to deep-pockets (relatively) or hard-core dedicated hobbyists.

otoh, nano-reefing now increases the target audience to everyone! (whether that's a good thing or a scary thing is another topic of discussion)

[KMP]

mixed feelings reading this thread.

i understand the message...small package deal tanks are geared towards profit rather than responsible reefing. small tanks are more prone to problems.

all i can say is please consider your audience. the nano craze that peaked my interest brought me to this site to learn. it also revitalized an interst i've had in salt water tanks since i was in high school; 22 years later - i've retired from the miltary and can settle into a hobby previously unattainable with constant moves and deployments.

if finances were no constraint; i'd be chatting with the best of them about my 125g tank. but that's just not in the cards right now. one of the best experiences with my nano so far is realizing this is a commitment. at 24g this is not cheap and i intend to make the best of it.

i've visited a few "reef" forums and decided reef sanctuary was the place for me to embrace the knowledge of others and would hope; make some friends along the way. i steered clear of the other sites because of the resounding theme of "noobs" being a burden with pesky questions. i ask you all, who didn't ask questions when they started?

this is the first thread i've read [here] so far that taints my impression [slightly]. there is definately a hierarchy among reef hobbyists. if us new guys were challenging that i'd understand some of the comments i've read in this thread. i could be wrong, but i haven't seen that in my short tenure.

that said, thanks to all that created, manage, and contribute to this site. i'm an avid truck enthusiast and the veteran on those boards. i understand the dedication, commitment and patience in making a web site successful and a home.

by the way - can someone explain the whole "karma" concept to me

[tony g]

Hi.
This is just the type of discussion I would like to get into. My very first question that I posted in this forum was "what is a nano tank", I got an answer but I really made me feel quite stupid as I never associated the Nano the way its ment to. Anyway, the reason I really didnt make the connection is because these small tanks are not promoted much in Australia and most LFS dont encorouge using them.At least here in Adelaide where i live anyway. Is the popularity of these tanks gaining in America because of the large amount of high density housing?
I think more people should be aware of the general rule of the smaller the tank the more likely the chance of problems and the harder these problems are to fix. Just think of how many hundreds of thousands of creatures are taken from the ocean only to die in some cube because someone wants to indulge a little. The use of these small tanks should be discouraged at least until we are able to meet the demand for these fish ourselves and stop taking them from the wild. Tony.