Who is responsible; the individual or the LFS? - Page 2

Gina · 04-11-2006, 06:52 PM

I feel also that alot of the responsiblilty rest on us (the customer). I also feel though that the LFS should have people who work for them have some knowledge about what they are selling.
The owner needs to make sure that his employess are educated on fish, corals and equiptment. He could certainly give them books to read or tell them to go on line and join a saltwater forum.

lcstorc · 04-11-2006, 07:21 PM

The customer should certainly do their research, but the LFS has a responsibility to either give a good answer or at least admit to not knowing.
I just switched all of my purchases from a LFS who would say "no problem" and "no special care needed" etc only to find out it was something very specialized etc. (worst story was a nubibrach) Yes, I should have researched first, but I fell prey to seeing something really cool and wanting it combined with knowing it would be sold by the next day if I came back. Now I give my business to a wonderful but small shop with an owner who is much less experienced but will at least admit it and help me find the answer. Frequently we will look it up on his laptop right there in the store. I would much prefer an honest I don't know than completely incorrect info. He is also willing to go shopping for anything I decide I want after the proper research so I am not limited to what he has in the shop at any given time.
It's been fabulous since I swapped and hopefully the other guy will realize that he will continue to lose business unless he makes some changes.
Peace
Lynn

Little Luey · 04-12-2006, 11:04 AM

Someone said the responsability is everyones, I agree to a certain degree. Not all LFS are in bussines because they love the hobby, some are just out to make money, and they will sell you what you go in there and say you want, it is bussinnes to them.
I cannot blame them for it since I get out of bed every morning to make a living myself and there are days that is more difficult to get out of bed than others. The stores that really care, you can tell who they are, they take pride on their place, stock and employees. So is my responsability to separete the two.
But it is also my responsability to know what I am doing, what gets along with what and what does not. Someone used the cars as an exemple, well, when you buy your car you want to know the miles per galon/or maintenance requirements to see it if will fit your driving needs, we must do the same with our hobby. I cannot blame the HS kid who is working the summer to get his savings going, and I cannot spect him/her to know or be able to tell me what I need to know myself. In this day there is information about everything and anything so readily available, so an uneducated customer should never be, you should have at least an idea of what you need to do in your tank and not spect someone else to do the research for you.
There is also people who reinvent the wheel seting up a tank, they do not listen to advice, they like to see if "this will work on my tank", newbies need to be able to educate themselves and listen. How many of us have seen a person keeping a tang in a 20gal tank? these are the requirements I am talking about, some people ask before buying and some don't, don't blame the Green Brittle Star for eating your snail or shrimp, it is just doing what they do. In my position at work I am responsible for the people I manage, I have to place them in the best situation for them to be successful; we need to do the same with our tanks.

Peace out.

Witfull · 04-12-2006, 11:13 AM

well said everyone,,,,

now, how can we efect the changes we would like to see? do we educate the employee, take them under our wing? offer sggestions to the powers that be? are we brave enough?

i open the floor~

Charlie97L · 04-12-2006, 02:31 PM

i have a bunch of LFS's in my area, and the one right near me is so so... I've never had any problems with the fish I've gotten there so far, but the corals are just not good... They do have 2 display tanks that are properly set up to hosue corals, and those look great, but the coral in the holding tanks look not too hot, but they're still setting up, so I have to give them some credit.

they just moved into a new space, and are dealing with a bunch of new employees... I'm in there a lot, and the manager knows me, so he doesn't mind if I correct one of the new guys... not that I'm an expert, but I do know most people don't want damsels in their tank initially as a "cycle fish" etc. I'm not afraid of helping out, just in my nature... but if there's a question I don't know, I'll definitely help them find the answer through the manager or advise them to look it up at home before they buy.

What they DO do well is go seek more experienced help if they don't know the answer, especially regarding the marine life. (it's an excellent FW store as well). I think there still are some issues (someone put a bicolor pseudochromis in a holding tank with 4 fire shrimp and it was in the process of going Predator on their butts, and got em all before i could get someone to fix the problem)... but overall a good store. Huge selection... I personally think they overorder on Tangs, but just MO.

There are some other, smaller places in the area I like much better, but they are sooo far away from me, it sucks. But I go there to make important purchases. But it's nice to have a shop right by me to pick up a pump, food, and phsoban.

lcstorc · 04-12-2006, 03:00 PM

Education is always the key.
On that note, I introduced the owner of my favorite lfs to RS.

Obviously this is easier since I am dealing with a small shop where the owner is almost always on-site. The bigger stores it would be tough.
Peace
Lynn

Cougra · 04-12-2006, 04:13 PM

I personally believe that the onus is on the hobbyist to know something about the live animals they are planning on purchasing. I honestly don't like hearing people who go to the store to get a small tank for their kids to enjoy when they don't know anything about the hobby themselves.

I believe there is a lot of missinformation around and a general perception that keeping an aquarium is easy. (ie. Just add water, heater and filter and everything will be fine.) Then when they try to keep fish, they find out that after a few weeks everything seems to have died and they get mad and blame the store for selling sick fish, or give up on the hobby since it's a "waste of money."

I think that main thing is that people on the whole need to be better educated. I know there are a lot of people out there who don't know what a nitrogen cycle is or how it affects their tank. What I would like to see put in place is some sort of system (kinda like a certification) so that people have to prove they have a basic knowledge of fish keeping. In other words they need to read a book or go online and do some basic research before being allowed to buy a tank or any live stock.

Charlie97L · 04-12-2006, 05:02 PM

While I agree with what you say about the certification, that will never happen, and I believe there was a thread on nano-reef.com about this very subject.

the crux of the 50 page thread was who decides what = certified? i think this is going to have to be a self-policing issue basically. and unfortunately, if restrictions were placed, a grey market would pop up to serve it.

i mean, in a country where you can easily get prescription medications online without a prescription, who is going to be able to regulate fish? Most people would agree, that while a dog may not have as low tolerances to change as our reefs do, it's as much of a committment as a SW aquarium. do you have to be licensed to have a dog? no.

then we get into conservation issues. i think all of marine aquaria will soon be moving to aquaculture, as the technology improves, and more restrictions are placed on wild caught creatures. But even then, there will still be poaching. I think it is up to us as aquarists to educate our friends on the proper treatment and complexity of these animals. i know my roommates have developed an appreciation for the complexity and work involved in keeping my tank working right.

On a side note, I think nano cubes are the bane of the industry. i see so many people stuffing tangs and angels into a 12 or 24 gallon tank it drives me nuts. Proper nano tanks are great, but the fact that you can get an all in one box solution to SW (seemingly, anyway) is a little misleading to a lot of people, especially the younger guys out there.

The only real action i think the LFS could and should take is not sell a fish to people who don't have the capacity for it, ie. if you have a 10 gallon, no triggers or tangs... because that's tantamount to selling a dog to someone who intends to have it for dinner. They could at least easily make an effort to inquire, or about hard to keep fish, like mandarins, as well.

Little Luey · 04-12-2006, 05:44 PM

One thing I do like about Petco and Petsmart is the fact that they provide some basic info on their fish, like the red & green dots by the fish name telling you this is a community or agressive fish; a Petco I used to go had printed papers on how to setup a tank and some fish requirements, but like Charlie97L said, people will still put a tang on a small tank!
What I like to see is newbies get responsible and try to learn, so many come in to the hobby thinking they know what they are doing when the reality is they do not; this is why that tang is on that 20gal.
I know you have seen that member with that fish in his avatar, and some other ones that continually get told not to do a certain thing and they still do get this Mandarin or anemone on their 2 month old tank.
When I do not know what I am doing I listen to advice, then I try to make an educated desicion, but not everyone does and this is why some people will "blame" the LFS when things don't go right, it is easier to do so than to admit they were wrong.
The way we can help change this is by educating every newbie that comes to RS and help them out, but even then we can only do so much, they need to want to be helped, if not is a loosing battle.
A while back I desided I was going to be more friendly with new reefers so once in a while I do go to the Meet & Greet forum to say hello and try to be more proactive with the new people. Hopefully more and more correct info gets out there.

Peace.

Sharkbait · 04-12-2006, 06:13 PM

"The largest killer of all capitve marine animals is ignorance of the caretaker" Anthony Calfo, BOCP.
With that said I would charge the person interested in keeping the animal. Advice is free and is not always correct, so take it with a grain of salt and do the research. You'll ususally feel much better that you did. I am a hobbist, and I run a saltwater service company. I have heard it all. I agree with Witfull's comments, being I've played in both sides. Responsibility is doing what is right for said organism, everyone should take part down the chain. Blaming a LFS is passing the buck for not doing your homework. Expecting a lot from a employee, the Ocean is a big place, a lot of information. Can you remember every detail of the largest percentage of our planet?( if you think you can i have some good questions for you, just an offer.)

BoomerD · 04-12-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

How much responsibility should we place on the LFS to provide all the information required for this hobby? Why does the LFS get the blame for poor advice instead of the individual for not doing enough research on the animals they want to put in their tank?

Having been in the hobby in one way or another for over 30 yrs., I have perhaps a bit different view on this. It is ultimately the hobbyist's responsibility to ensure that the animals they buy for their tanks are healthy and suitable for their particular tank environment and community, HOWEVER, it is also the responsibility of the LFS and it's employees to give accurate information when asked. NO, they should not be expected to know each person's tank/set-up by memory, nor should they have to ask, before selling a fish/coral, but IF ASKED, they should know to ask the pertinant questions, and have the CORRECT answers to questions.
Having worked for a long time as a "saltwater specialist" in one of the LFS here, I've seen lots of employees in the fish room that personally, I wouldn't trust to clean a cat-box, but on the other hand, I've also seen WAY TOO ANY hobbyists who should never even be allowed to have an aquarium screen-saer, let alone a real tank, housing live fish and corals...I've dealt with people who only see fish & aquariums as a decoration for thier home/ business, and don't care much if the animals die, because after all, they can always buy another one...
Nope, IMO, it's incumbent upon US hobbyists to become as knowledgeable as possible about our hobby, to research every fish/invert/coral that we buy, BEFORE we buy it, and to quarantine our new livestock before we add it into our communities...
It's our job to know what questions to ask the LFS employees, yet to be knowledgeable enough to tell when they either don't know, and are trying to B.S. us, or outright lie to us...whether to sell SOMETHING, or to sell what's their weekly special.
IF you find a good LFS, that hires knowledgeable people, rather than just the local HS kids because they're cheaper, then by all means, give that store your business. DON'T b*tch if they're a bit more spendy than the local LFS that always has sick fish, and people who couldn't tell a blue tang, from a blue goby, but instead rely on the labels on the tank to figure it out...
buy good books, and read, read, read...make YOURSELF the "saltwater specialist" when visiting your LFS...

Witfull · 04-13-2006, 04:32 AM

very articulate group~

Quote:

On a side note, I think nano cubes are the bane of the industry

these have always been around, Nano is just the latest name for them. for decades they were the "starter set." every store had them, the cheapest, most basic set up to get the marginal customer interested in fish. sticker shock is an understatement in this hobby. many people that are curious about the hobby, dont want to drop the cash if they arent quite sure if its for them. these folks, when i had my stores, i would steer towards freshies. i would literally talk for an hour to a new customer about SW, almost appearing to try and talk them out of it. seemed anti-retail, but either they went to freshwater fish (i still made sales and had a happier customer), a well informed SW customer that knew what they were getting into, or i lost a customer. (maybe a good thing). after my little disertation, and they wanted saltwater fish, they could only buy one thing on their initial trip. a good book. yes some wanted to buy right then and there, but it was a book only. after time went by, we had a strong following and grew by word of mouth. i actually had to have new to SW orientations. tuesday nights at 630, i still remember it well.

now wholesalers,,,hmm this is a rough trade to be in. they are at the mercy of suppliers for quality and selection. they are at the mercy of airlines.(bumped flights, boxes left sitting in the sun for hours, failure to call on arrival) they have overheads and losses, they need to recoup and profit. most are very good at this, if not they soon go out of business.

as expensive as this hobby is, i would gladly pay more if the cost would give a greater shipping survival rate of animals. this is the weakest link in this hobby, fresh or salt. transportation! we need to to get them beyond the sticker "Live Animals". many employees there just dont care. its a box. they need to have a penalty for failure to follow schedule. as of now, most only refund the cost of shipping...big whooptydoo. hit them with a fine of retail value of the shipment. this would hit them hard and i would wager, expitited, preferential treatment of "Live Animals".

mps9506 · 04-13-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witfull

as expensive as this hobby is, i would gladly pay more if the cost would give a greater shipping survival rate of animals. this is the weakest link in this hobby, fresh or salt. transportation! we need to to get them beyond the sticker "Live Animals". many employees there just dont care. its a box. they need to have a penalty for failure to follow schedule. as of now, most only refund the cost of shipping...big whooptydoo. hit them with a fine of retail value of the shipment. this would hit them hard and i would wager, expitited, preferential treatment of "Live Animals".

Yar. I totally agree here. My local airport depot doesn't give a flip about my shipments. I KNOW the shipment arrives at 12:30 in the afternoon. But if they are on lunch, to bad, those boxes are sitting on the tarmac until they are ready to pick up. If my stuff is dead, they write me a check, not a big deal to them. It is a big deal to me though.
To tell the truth as bad as I've expereinced getting sutff shipped via ups or fed ex, I almost think they would take better care of my livestock shipments than the airlines. I get my ORA fish and corals via FedEx overnight and I have never had a problem getting my ora shipments in good conditions, excpt for one december when we kept getting frozen clownfish... Nother story though...

jumpincactus · 05-13-2006, 05:19 PM

We are all responsible IMO. Knowledge is power. In respects to me I took a year to read everything I could on reefkeeping. I spent that year planning saving, asking other more experinced hobbyists what worked for them.

I do believe that there are some really good LFS out there but as with anything in life in the sales market. Buyer beware. If you set yourself up for others to take advantage of you then it is something you need to live with and not blame the LFS

Doing my homework upfront saved me the misery I went thru 15 years ago when I 1st got into reefs and had a horrible time of it and ultimately quit the hobby because I did not know,nor enjoy what it was like. This time around armed with facts and knowledge I am enjoying this hobby much more.

This is where I feel the LFS would thrive with training thier employees. With the buyer having knowledge and the store staff having knowledge then what you have are more happy hobbyist staying in the hobby and spending money in the LFS store of thier choice. And now let me ask you this, are you going to spend your hard earned dollars with a LFS that never seems to have the right information or are you going to spend it with someone as passionate about the hobby and those that really do have the answers for your problems or questions when you need help.

jkhalliday76 · 05-13-2006, 06:00 PM

I think both should share the blame. The LFS should be well-informed about their business (though mostly high school kids work these jobs), and should give suggestions based on their expertise, not solely on making the profit.

The buyer should beware. Don't go blindly into a LFS and purchase something and then get mad when it doesn't work out. This is too new of a hobby for everyone to know everything about it.

04-11-2006, 06:52 PM	#16 (permalink)
Gina Moderator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,824 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Who is responsible; the individual or the LFS? I feel also that alot of the responsiblilty rest on us (the customer). I also feel though that the LFS should have people who work for them have some knowledge about what they are selling. The owner needs to make sure that his employess are educated on fish, corals and equiptment. He could certainly give them books to read or tell them to go on line and join a saltwater forum. __________________ Gina and Mark's 75 Visit Our Sponsors Gina's Cube Gina

04-11-2006, 07:21 PM	#17 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 18,895 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Who is responsible; the individual or the LFS? The customer should certainly do their research, but the LFS has a responsibility to either give a good answer or at least admit to not knowing. I just switched all of my purchases from a LFS who would say "no problem" and "no special care needed" etc only to find out it was something very specialized etc. (worst story was a nubibrach) Yes, I should have researched first, but I fell prey to seeing something really cool and wanting it combined with knowing it would be sold by the next day if I came back. Now I give my business to a wonderful but small shop with an owner who is much less experienced but will at least admit it and help me find the answer. Frequently we will look it up on his laptop right there in the store. I would much prefer an honest I don't know than completely incorrect info. He is also willing to go shopping for anything I decide I want after the proper research so I am not limited to what he has in the shop at any given time. It's been fabulous since I swapped and hopefully the other guy will realize that he will continue to lose business unless he makes some changes. Peace Lynn

04-12-2006, 11:04 AM	#18 (permalink)
Little Luey Scopas Tang Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 432 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Who is responsible; the individual or the LFS? Someone said the responsability is everyones, I agree to a certain degree. Not all LFS are in bussines because they love the hobby, some are just out to make money, and they will sell you what you go in there and say you want, it is bussinnes to them. I cannot blame them for it since I get out of bed every morning to make a living myself and there are days that is more difficult to get out of bed than others. The stores that really care, you can tell who they are, they take pride on their place, stock and employees. So is my responsability to separete the two. But it is also my responsability to know what I am doing, what gets along with what and what does not. Someone used the cars as an exemple, well, when you buy your car you want to know the miles per galon/or maintenance requirements to see it if will fit your driving needs, we must do the same with our hobby. I cannot blame the HS kid who is working the summer to get his savings going, and I cannot spect him/her to know or be able to tell me what I need to know myself. In this day there is information about everything and anything so readily available, so an uneducated customer should never be, you should have at least an idea of what you need to do in your tank and not spect someone else to do the research for you. There is also people who reinvent the wheel seting up a tank, they do not listen to advice, they like to see if "this will work on my tank", newbies need to be able to educate themselves and listen. How many of us have seen a person keeping a tang in a 20gal tank? these are the requirements I am talking about, some people ask before buying and some don't, don't blame the Green Brittle Star for eating your snail or shrimp, it is just doing what they do. In my position at work I am responsible for the people I manage, I have to place them in the best situation for them to be successful; we need to do the same with our tanks. Peace out. __________________ Little Luey 20Gal, 30 lbs. Live rock. 1 yellow goby 1 firefish 1 rainsford goby 5 turbo snails 1 feather duster 1 devil's hand leather 1 sea grass colony 2 Zoantoids colonies

04-12-2006, 02:31 PM	#20 (permalink)
Charlie97L Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Bethesda, MD Posts: 1,288 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Who is responsible; the individual or the LFS? i have a bunch of LFS's in my area, and the one right near me is so so... I've never had any problems with the fish I've gotten there so far, but the corals are just not good... They do have 2 display tanks that are properly set up to hosue corals, and those look great, but the coral in the holding tanks look not too hot, but they're still setting up, so I have to give them some credit. they just moved into a new space, and are dealing with a bunch of new employees... I'm in there a lot, and the manager knows me, so he doesn't mind if I correct one of the new guys... not that I'm an expert, but I do know most people don't want damsels in their tank initially as a "cycle fish" etc. I'm not afraid of helping out, just in my nature... but if there's a question I don't know, I'll definitely help them find the answer through the manager or advise them to look it up at home before they buy. What they DO do well is go seek more experienced help if they don't know the answer, especially regarding the marine life. (it's an excellent FW store as well). I think there still are some issues (someone put a bicolor pseudochromis in a holding tank with 4 fire shrimp and it was in the process of going Predator on their butts, and got em all before i could get someone to fix the problem)... but overall a good store. Huge selection... I personally think they overorder on Tangs, but just MO. There are some other, smaller places in the area I like much better, but they are sooo far away from me, it sucks. But I go there to make important purchases. But it's nice to have a shop right by me to pick up a pump, food, and phsoban. __________________ 40 Breeder, 20H Frag Aquactinics T5s, CPR Fuge, Deltec AP600, AC Jr, WavySea

04-12-2006, 03:00 PM	#21 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 18,895 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Who is responsible; the individual or the LFS? Education is always the key. On that note, I introduced the owner of my favorite lfs to RS. Obviously this is easier since I am dealing with a small shop where the owner is almost always on-site. The bigger stores it would be tough. Peace Lynn

04-12-2006, 04:13 PM	#22 (permalink)
Cougra Dragon Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 2,216 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Who is responsible; the individual or the LFS? I personally believe that the onus is on the hobbyist to know something about the live animals they are planning on purchasing. I honestly don't like hearing people who go to the store to get a small tank for their kids to enjoy when they don't know anything about the hobby themselves. I believe there is a lot of missinformation around and a general perception that keeping an aquarium is easy. (ie. Just add water, heater and filter and everything will be fine.) Then when they try to keep fish, they find out that after a few weeks everything seems to have died and they get mad and blame the store for selling sick fish, or give up on the hobby since it's a "waste of money." I think that main thing is that people on the whole need to be better educated. I know there are a lot of people out there who don't know what a nitrogen cycle is or how it affects their tank. What I would like to see put in place is some sort of system (kinda like a certification) so that people have to prove they have a basic knowledge of fish keeping. In other words they need to read a book or go online and do some basic research before being allowed to buy a tank or any live stock. __________________ Michelle Just because something CAN be done, it doesn't mean that it SHOULD be done!

04-12-2006, 05:02 PM	#23 (permalink)
Charlie97L Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Bethesda, MD Posts: 1,288 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Who is responsible; the individual or the LFS? While I agree with what you say about the certification, that will never happen, and I believe there was a thread on nano-reef.com about this very subject. the crux of the 50 page thread was who decides what = certified? i think this is going to have to be a self-policing issue basically. and unfortunately, if restrictions were placed, a grey market would pop up to serve it. i mean, in a country where you can easily get prescription medications online without a prescription, who is going to be able to regulate fish? Most people would agree, that while a dog may not have as low tolerances to change as our reefs do, it's as much of a committment as a SW aquarium. do you have to be licensed to have a dog? no. then we get into conservation issues. i think all of marine aquaria will soon be moving to aquaculture, as the technology improves, and more restrictions are placed on wild caught creatures. But even then, there will still be poaching. I think it is up to us as aquarists to educate our friends on the proper treatment and complexity of these animals. i know my roommates have developed an appreciation for the complexity and work involved in keeping my tank working right. On a side note, I think nano cubes are the bane of the industry. i see so many people stuffing tangs and angels into a 12 or 24 gallon tank it drives me nuts. Proper nano tanks are great, but the fact that you can get an all in one box solution to SW (seemingly, anyway) is a little misleading to a lot of people, especially the younger guys out there. The only real action i think the LFS could and should take is not sell a fish to people who don't have the capacity for it, ie. if you have a 10 gallon, no triggers or tangs... because that's tantamount to selling a dog to someone who intends to have it for dinner. They could at least easily make an effort to inquire, or about hard to keep fish, like mandarins, as well. __________________ 40 Breeder, 20H Frag Aquactinics T5s, CPR Fuge, Deltec AP600, AC Jr, WavySea

04-12-2006, 05:44 PM	#24 (permalink)
Little Luey Scopas Tang Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 432 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Who is responsible; the individual or the LFS? One thing I do like about Petco and Petsmart is the fact that they provide some basic info on their fish, like the red & green dots by the fish name telling you this is a community or agressive fish; a Petco I used to go had printed papers on how to setup a tank and some fish requirements, but like Charlie97L said, people will still put a tang on a small tank! What I like to see is newbies get responsible and try to learn, so many come in to the hobby thinking they know what they are doing when the reality is they do not; this is why that tang is on that 20gal. I know you have seen that member with that fish in his avatar, and some other ones that continually get told not to do a certain thing and they still do get this Mandarin or anemone on their 2 month old tank. When I do not know what I am doing I listen to advice, then I try to make an educated desicion, but not everyone does and this is why some people will "blame" the LFS when things don't go right, it is easier to do so than to admit they were wrong. The way we can help change this is by educating every newbie that comes to RS and help them out, but even then we can only do so much, they need to want to be helped, if not is a loosing battle. A while back I desided I was going to be more friendly with new reefers so once in a while I do go to the Meet & Greet forum to say hello and try to be more proactive with the new people. Hopefully more and more correct info gets out there. Peace. __________________ Little Luey 20Gal, 30 lbs. Live rock. 1 yellow goby 1 firefish 1 rainsford goby 5 turbo snails 1 feather duster 1 devil's hand leather 1 sea grass colony 2 Zoantoids colonies

04-12-2006, 06:13 PM	#25 (permalink)
Sharkbait Scopas Tang Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Phoenix Posts: 426 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Who is responsible; the individual or the LFS? "The largest killer of all capitve marine animals is ignorance of the caretaker" Anthony Calfo, BOCP. With that said I would charge the person interested in keeping the animal. Advice is free and is not always correct, so take it with a grain of salt and do the research. You'll ususally feel much better that you did. I am a hobbist, and I run a saltwater service company. I have heard it all. I agree with Witfull's comments, being I've played in both sides. Responsibility is doing what is right for said organism, everyone should take part down the chain. Blaming a LFS is passing the buck for not doing your homework. Expecting a lot from a employee, the Ocean is a big place, a lot of information. Can you remember every detail of the largest percentage of our planet?( if you think you can i have some good questions for you, just an offer.) __________________ 'Cause I'm as free as a Bird Wrasse...

05-13-2006, 05:19 PM	#29 (permalink)
jumpincactus Tunicate Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 17 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Who is responsible; the individual or the LFS? We are all responsible IMO. Knowledge is power. In respects to me I took a year to read everything I could on reefkeeping. I spent that year planning saving, asking other more experinced hobbyists what worked for them. I do believe that there are some really good LFS out there but as with anything in life in the sales market. Buyer beware. If you set yourself up for others to take advantage of you then it is something you need to live with and not blame the LFS Doing my homework upfront saved me the misery I went thru 15 years ago when I 1st got into reefs and had a horrible time of it and ultimately quit the hobby because I did not know,nor enjoy what it was like. This time around armed with facts and knowledge I am enjoying this hobby much more. This is where I feel the LFS would thrive with training thier employees. With the buyer having knowledge and the store staff having knowledge then what you have are more happy hobbyist staying in the hobby and spending money in the LFS store of thier choice. And now let me ask you this, are you going to spend your hard earned dollars with a LFS that never seems to have the right information or are you going to spend it with someone as passionate about the hobby and those that really do have the answers for your problems or questions when you need help. __________________ Look on wifes face as she sees me standing looking at our 500,000 gallon man made lake figuring out how much salt I need to order........ Priceless

05-13-2006, 06:00 PM	#30 (permalink)
jkhalliday76 Pistol Shrimp Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 254 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Who is responsible; the individual or the LFS? I think both should share the blame. The LFS should be well-informed about their business (though mostly high school kids work these jobs), and should give suggestions based on their expertise, not solely on making the profit. The buyer should beware. Don't go blindly into a LFS and purchase something and then get mad when it doesn't work out. This is too new of a hobby for everyone to know everything about it.

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