Valonia aegagropila problem

[mantid]

*not my photo

So I have a really bad Valonia aegagropila (at least that's what I think it is) problem. It has been growing for the last 4 years or so but not become too noticable of a problem until now. I have a 46 gal reef tank full to the top with rock and corals and the algea has grown about 2-3 inches thick around all the rock on half my tank. I can pull it off in large chuncks like the picture above but because it has grown so slow over the years my corals have adapted to it and started growing on top of the algea but of course that doesnt stop this beast of an algea of growing.

Today I added 4 emerald crabs hoping to see what they might do. Any other suggestions? Ill post some photos as soon as I am able.

[faust]

okay. i'll ask? why did you let it get a foot hold in the first place. i mean no dis respect. but if i see something i remove it, not let it take over the tank

[mantid]

Well, couple of reasons. First it grew so slow that it never caused any problems, until now. Second, the tank is currently at my parents house until my wife and I are ready to buy a house next summer so I dont see the tank but every 2-3 weeks. Also it was almost unnoticable until recently because I have so much coral that is growing in, around, and on top of it. Basicilly if it's not a problem and it adds a little somthing other than just rock between the corals than why mess with it. I never new what it was or that it could get so out of control until now. Anyways, now I know and I wont make the mistake again. Until then I need solutions.

[cbrownfish]

I don't know exactly what causes one high-nutrient tank to have hair algae, another to have Cyano and yet another to have Valonia. Maybe the blend of nutrient byproducts at a certain level? Who knows (in fact, if someone does, enlighten me!).

Regardless, nutrient reduction is in order. The reason that nuisance algae gets a foothold and proliferates is due to excess nutrients. Phosphates as the primary offender.

[lcstorc]

Do you have a pic of what is in your tank? I would like to get an impartial ID to start with.
If it is valonia then IMO you have 2 choices. Ignore it like you have been or take out and cook the rock. Controling nutrients will help but if it is that thick I don't see that being a solution.
Emerald crabs are reported to go after it and if they seem to be working, I would get an army of them. I hear mixed reports on if they work or not.

[mantid]

Originally Posted by cbrownfish

I don't know exactly what causes one high-nutrient tank to have hair algae, another to have Cyano and yet another to have Valonia. Maybe the blend of nutrient byproducts at a certain level? Who knows (in fact, if someone does, enlighten me!).

Regardless, nutrient reduction is in order. The reason that nuisance algae gets a foothold and proliferates is due to excess nutrients. Phosphates as the primary offender.

It's funny because my tank really isnt all that high nutrient. I actually havent fed or dosed my tank anything for about a year and hardly anything before that. I let my corals get all their food from photosynthesis and all my inverts and fish are herbivouris so they just eat any algea that grows, with the ecception of this Valonia. Ill get a photo on here soon

[cbrownfish]

Nutrients are fueling the issue, no question about that. Green algae requires nutrients and light to proliferate. Last time I checked herbivores poop just like carnivores.

4 years is a pretty mature tank and over time nutrients saturate sand beds and rock. If you have had corals or other critters die over time, the nutrients are added that way as well. Are you using RO/DI water as your source water? Are you getting a zero TDS reading?

[SubRosa]

Valonia is unlike other problem algaes in one very important respect. It's capable of concentrating nutrients, working like an RO unit in reverse. If you want to see something interesting take a sample of water from your tank and test the nitrates. Then collect enough bubbles to pop to collect a sample and test the nitrates on that. My own testing has shown levels of nitrate 200x higher in the bubble water. You're not going to starve out Valonia like Hair or Cyano. You need to physically remove as much as possible while not breaking bubbles and get some sort of bio control. Emeralds are hit or miss ime, but your tank really isn't big enough for a Rabbitfish, which might munch LPS, or a Tang. A friend who ran a wholesale business had a Desjardin's Tang that he kept in a QT tank to clean Valonia off of fresh coral imports. It ate them like a little kid eating french fries, but it's a fish by fish basis with Tangs. You have a tough row to hoe. Good luck!

John

[mantid]

Originally Posted by cbrownfish

Nutrients are fueling the issue, no question about that. Green algae requires nutrients and light to proliferate. Last time I checked herbivores poop just like carnivores.

4 years is a pretty mature tank and over time nutrients saturate sand beds and rock. If you have had corals or other critters die over time, the nutrients are added that way as well. Are you using RO/DI water as your source water? Are you getting a zero TDS reading?

It's obvious that any algae requires nutrients to grow. My point was that my tank is not nutrient "rich" in respect to any other reef tank. I would even venture to say that it's less than most reef tanks. This algae growth is not something that happened over night. I have had this tank running for about 8 years and noticed this type of algae ruffly four years ago. The only herbivores creatures, or any inverts/fish, in my tank is a lawnmower blenny and now four emerald crabs and a few very small hermit crabs. When I said only herbivores creatures, I said that because I figured people would ask how my fish and inverts eat if I don't feed them. I believe that my problem probably comes mostly from my excessive lighting (6 VHO's on a 46 gal). Due to the fact that sand beds tend to saturate, hold and re-release these nutrients I intentionally made my sand bed about 1/2 - 1 inch thick keeping it from causing future spikes. I do 20% water change every two weeks because I have to commute all the way across town I cant do it more often.

(I don't want to sound like I'm arguing, just want everyone on the same page that I really am conscious of my nutrient levels and how it comes to be.)

(:

I think my problem is that I just didn't deal with it earlier. I believe anyone that would have this introduced into their tank regardless of nutrient levels would have the same problem after so many years of being left alone.
Once you see the pictures of my tank you will understand why I can't just peel it up. I would loose a lot of good corals because it is all so intertwined. What little I can peel up still leave traces that are almost impossible to get to within the pores of rock

And last, no I'm not using RO water and I now know I should be. This is one of those things that I joined the forum to learn about tricks and techniques like that. I will start using it on my next H20 change which will be a big one.

[mantid]

Originally Posted by SubRosa

Valonia is unlike other problem algaes in one very important respect. It's capable of concentrating nutrients, working like an RO unit in reverse. If you want to see something interesting take a sample of water from your tank and test the nitrates. Then collect enough bubbles to pop to collect a sample and test the nitrates on that. My own testing has shown levels of nitrate 200x higher in the bubble water. You're not going to starve out Valonia like Hair or Cyano. You need to physically remove as much as possible while not breaking bubbles and get some sort of bio control. Emeralds are hit or miss ime, but your tank really isn't big enough for a Rabbitfish, which might munch LPS, or a Tang. A friend who ran a wholesale business had a Desjardin's Tang that he kept in a QT tank to clean Valonia off of fresh coral imports. It ate them like a little kid eating french fries, but it's a fish by fish basis with Tangs. You have a tough row to hoe. Good luck!

John

So you are basically saying that if my emeralds do start "pinching" em I could have a huge release of nitrates back into the tank creating an endless cycle of Valonia thriving and growing even faster? That sucks!

[mantid]

Originally Posted by SubRosa

Valonia is unlike other problem algaes in one very important respect. It's capable of concentrating nutrients, working like an RO unit in reverse. If you want to see something interesting take a sample of water from your tank and test the nitrates. Then collect enough bubbles to pop to collect a sample and test the nitrates on that. My own testing has shown levels of nitrate 200x higher in the bubble water. You're not going to starve out Valonia like Hair or Cyano. You need to physically remove as much as possible while not breaking bubbles and get some sort of bio control. Emeralds are hit or miss ime, but your tank really isn't big enough for a Rabbitfish, which might munch LPS, or a Tang. A friend who ran a wholesale business had a Desjardin's Tang that he kept in a QT tank to clean Valonia off of fresh coral imports. It ate them like a little kid eating french fries, but it's a fish by fish basis with Tangs. You have a tough row to hoe. Good luck!

John

So you are basically saying that if my emeralds do start "pinching" em I could have a huge release of nitrates back into the tank creating an endless cycle of Valonia thriving and growing even faster? That sucks!

When I move the tank to my house I will be setting up a refugium so hopefully that will help with the problem, sure cant hurt.

[SubRosa]

Originally Posted by mantid

So you are basically saying that if my emeralds do start "pinching" em I could have a huge release of nitrates back into the tank creating an endless cycle of Valonia thriving and growing even faster? That sucks!

When I move the tank to my house I will be setting up a refugium so hopefully that will help with the problem, sure cant hurt.

If you popped them yourself that would almost certainly be the result! If the Emeralds are actively eating them and you're doing your part to remove the nutrients in the water column the infestation will peter out over time. But considering how long this has been going on and how advanced it is I think you're looking at a long time if you just rely on the crabs. You need to remove the bulk of it yourself. Pull out as much as you can, and then consider pulling out the rock and scrubbing it and rinsing it off in a bucket of SW before putting it back in.

John

[cbrownfish]

Originally Posted by mantid

And last, no I'm not using RO water and I now know I should be. This is one of those things that I joined the forum to learn about tricks and techniques like that. I will start using it on my next H20 change which will be a big one.

I don't mean to come across harsh here and I apolgize if you are taking this that way. Feeding is not exclusively the way that PO4/NO3 is introduced into a system. If you are using water from the tap, then you are most certainly introducing PO4 into the system (possibly NO3). Test the tap water.

You can say that nutrients are low but how can you be so confident when your tank says differently? Nitrates are easier to test for but most hobbiest PO4 kits only test free phosphates. Additionally, the nuisance algae quickly consumes the excess nutrients, and you can get "false zeros" because the algae is using the nutrient byproducts as they are produced.

I had a Valonia issue in my nano tank and beat it with good husbandry. I increased water changes, added GAC/GFO and manually removed some. The bubbles will fade to white/clear as they begin to die. Ultimately, the dissolve and are gone.

[lcstorc]

Originally Posted by SubRosa

Valonia is unlike other problem algaes in one very important respect. It's capable of concentrating nutrients, working like an RO unit in reverse. If you want to see something interesting take a sample of water from your tank and test the nitrates. Then collect enough bubbles to pop to collect a sample and test the nitrates on that. My own testing has shown levels of nitrate 200x higher in the bubble water. You're not going to starve out Valonia like Hair or Cyano. You need to physically remove as much as possible while not breaking bubbles and get some sort of bio control. Emeralds are hit or miss ime, but your tank really isn't big enough for a Rabbitfish, which might munch LPS, or a Tang. A friend who ran a wholesale business had a Desjardin's Tang that he kept in a QT tank to clean Valonia off of fresh coral imports. It ate them like a little kid eating french fries, but it's a fish by fish basis with Tangs. You have a tough row to hoe. Good luck!

John

I agree with much of what you say John but disagree that it is impossible to starve it out. It may take longer than other macros but the nutrients have to come from somewhere and if the nutrients in the water are minimized it will use the stored nutrients in the bubbles.
Basically the same way the human body works. If we reduce our calorie intake then the body slowly uses the fat stores for energy.
I certainly have never studied it so I could be wrong but that just makes more sense to me.

[SubRosa]

I don't mean to imply that it's impossible to starve it out. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says otherwise! But that tank has been storing nutrients for over 4 years. How long are you willing to wait for it to starve?

John