I've had it with Bryposis

[Scouter Steve]

I have been battling bryposis for several months now and am totally fed up. Nitrates are zero, 2 reactors with gfo, no measurable phosphates. I have upped my Mg to over 1800. Twice as a matter of fact, once with Epsom salt and Mag flake and latest last week with Tech-M.
My system consists of two display tanks with a common sump and 40 gallon fuge. Till now the bryposis was only in one tank. What I am considering now is removing the affected rock which will mean about 1/2 of my 350-400 pounds. Then I will put it in straight RO/DI water for a day or two to kill it all. Then add salt and a piece or two of fresh LR to cure again.
Am I being to radical? I am at my wits end here.

[Snelly40]

i would use rowa-phos, i had no measurable phosphates either but i started using it and all my algea issues like your having went away!

[DaveK]

Control of any unwanted algae all comes down to controlling nitrate and phosphate.

If you fail to control these, about all you do is replace one species of unwanted algae with another. Just because the test kits don't have a measurable reading does not mean there is no problem. Often a "healthy growth of algae" can absorb a lot of nitrates and phosphates, keeping the water with low readings and the algae doing great.

I would consider your proposed approach too radical, and not going to do any real good unless you fix the underlying problem.

My choice would be to introduce other competing macro algaes, while removing as much of the bypposis as possible.

Also re-evaluate your filtration system, especially the skimmer. Check your feeding scheduling, and make sure your clean up crew is enough for the job.

[Scouter Steve]

I have been using Drs F+S phos pure. Skimming wet. Soaking my homade frozen food in RO/DI. Added Lettuce slugs,snails. My fuge is 1/2 full of cheato, removing softball size clumps every week. Lights are 1 1/2 month old, RO/DI tests 0TDS.
Please keep the ideas coming.

[mps9506]

Well you could consider one or both of the following:
Live rock "cooking"
Bare bottom

Dunking the rock in ro/di might kill you macro algae woes, but it won't get rid of the stored nutrients in the tank. You need bacteria to do that for you.
Going barebottom can help out long term with maintaining low nutrient levels in the tank.
My main recomendation would be cooking the rock.
From SeanT and Bomber over at RC:

The purpose of "cooking" your rocks is to have the bacteria consume all (or as much) organic material and PO4 stored on, and in, the rock as possible.

The first step to this is commitment.
You have to be willing to remove your rock from the tank.
It doesn't have to be all at once, but I feel if you are going to do this do it all. In stages if that is easier but make sure that all of it gets done.

The new environment you are creating for your rock is to take it from an algal driven to a bacterial driven system.
In order to do this, the rock needs to be in total darkness to retard and eventually kill the algae's on the rock and to give the bacteria time to do the job.

So basically you need tubs to hold the rock.

Equipment needed.
1. Dedication.
2. Tubs to cook rock in. And an equal amount of tubs to hold the rock during waterchanges.
3. A few powerheads.
4. Plenty of buckets.
5. A smug feeling of superiority that you are taking it to "the next level."
6. Saltwater, enough made up to follow the instructions below and to replenish your tank after removing rocks.
Here are the steps:

1. Get into your head and accept the fact you will be making lots of salt water if you aren't lucky enough to have access to filtered NSW.
2. Explain to significant other what is going on so they don't flip out. This process can take up to 2 months. Prepare them in advance so he/she can mark it on the calendar and that they won't nag about it until that date arrives.
3. Setup a tub(s) where the rock is to be cooked. Garages are great for this.
4. Make up enough water to fill tub(s) about halfway and around 5-7 buckets about 60% full.
5. Remove all the rock you want to cook at this stage. (The rock can be removed piece by piece until you are done.) I suggest shutting off the circulation beforehand to minimize dust storms.
6. Take the first piece of rock and dunk it, swish it, very, very well in the first bucket. Then do it again in the 2nd bucket, then the third.
7. Place rock in the tub.
8. Repeat steps 6 & 7 to every piece of rock you want to cook at this time. The reason I suggested 5-7 buckets of water will be evident quickly...as the water quickly turns brown.
9. Place powerhead(s) in the tub and plug in. Position at least one powerhead so that it agitates the surface of the water pretty well. This is to keep the water oxygenated. You can use an air pump for additional oxygenation if you wish. Only one powerhead per tub is needed. Remember the powerheads main responsibility is the oxygenation of the water.
10. Cover the tub. Remember, we want TOTAL darkness.
11. Empty out buckets, restart circulation on main tank.
12. Wait.
13. During the first couple of weeks it is recommended to do a swishing and dunking of the rocks twice a week.
What this entails is to make up enough water to fill up those buckets and the tub the rock is in.
First, lay out your empty tub(s) and fill buckets the same as before.
Then, uncover tub with the rock in it. Take a rock and swish it in the tub it's in to knock any easy to get off junk.
Then, swish it thru the 3 buckets again, and place in the empty tub..
Repeat for all your rocks.
Then empty the tub that all the rocks were cooking in, take it outside and rinse it out with a hose.
Place tub back where it was, fill with new saltwater, add rocks and powerheads, and cover.
Wait again until the next water change.
You will be utterly amazed at how much sand, silt, detritus is at the bottom of the tub and every bucket. It is amazing.
At times the stench was so strong I gagged.

How it works:

Some FAQ's.
When re-introducing the rock to my tank, a month or two from now, should I do that in parts to help minimize any cycling effect(s)...if there are any?
I never have. Really after a very short while, the ammonium cycle has been established. That's not what you're worry about though, it's the stored phosphates and that you have to wait it out.
When they are producing very little detritus - you'll know - then I would use them all at once.

Would running Carbon filtration and/or a PO4 reducing media help/hurry/hinder the process?
I wouldn't fool with it. You don't want the detritus to sit there long enough to rot, release water soluble P again. You want to take it out while it's still locked up in that bacterial detritus.

I would say that 85% of my exposed rock had Bryopsis (hair algae) covering it.
There isn't a single visible strand on any rocks my tank now.
Remember, the key is patience. Let this process run its course.

And a few last minute tidbits I remembered.
Your coralline will die back, recede etc.
My thoughts on this are GREAT!
Now my rock is more porous for additional pods, mysids, worms etc.
Coralline will grow back.
Throughout this process the sponges, and pods on my rock have not died off.
Every time I do a water change they are there and plentiful.

Some info on rock cooking and going barebottom:
Reef Central Online Community - The "How to go Barebottom thread."

[lcstorc]

Try allowing no light into the tank for several days to a week. The algae needs the light to survive and when cut off completely will die. I don't mean just keep the lights off. Complete darkness is needed. Big Al enclosed his tank in cardboard. It wasn't byropsis but I would think it would work for any algae.

[Scouter Steve]

I would consider the no light but won't my few good SPS be hurt by this? I have thought of cooking the rock but it seems a longer method. I know when the bryopsis came into the tank on a frag I bought not recognizing the bryopsis. I have no HA and assumed it would die as other HA has when put in my system.
Would my system survive without half the rock if I cook it?

[BigAl07]

They'll be stunted but only a small amount. Remember that in the wild there are times of limited light (storms etc) and they will pull through. I ran my cube lightless (created a CUSTOM Light Deprivation Chamber for it) for 5 straight days and honestly noticed no ill effects on anything but the Algae.

Here is a link to my " CUSTOM Light Deprivation Chamber "

[mps9506]

Originally Posted by Scouter Steve

I would consider the no light but won't my few good SPS be hurt by this? I have thought of cooking the rock but it seems a longer method.
Would my system survive without half the rock if I cook it?

Remember nothing good in this hobby happens fast or when you rush it.
I don't know what kind of bioload you have but consider removing about a 1/3 of your rock and cooking it for 1-2 months or until the detritus clears up in the tub. If you remove smaller amounts at a time your system can and will adapt.

As far as I'm concerned a few days without light probably won't kill bryopsis. But yes your SPS will do fine. Mine went a week without light (granted not in the total dark) during hurricane Fran. Just had pumps on battery backups.

[Scouter Steve]

I've considered cooking smaller portions of the rock but figured when re-introduced to the DT it would become infected again by anyleft in there. Then again if I cook half the rock in the one tank that is only around 25% of my total rock then when that is cooked pull the rest and cook that. Hmmm.

[mps9506]

You probably won't have any issues with doing half, but I would pull smaller amounts out of the tank first so not to shock the system. Pull out a 1/4 the first week, then another quarter the second week. After that half is done, just swap
It is a bit of work and your tank will look kinda slim for a while, but it is sooo worth it.

[DaveK]

Originally Posted by Scouter Steve

I have been using Drs F+S phos pure. Skimming wet. Soaking my homade frozen food in RO/DI. Added Lettuce slugs,snails. My fuge is 1/2 full of cheato, removing softball size clumps every week. Lights are 1 1/2 month old, RO/DI tests 0TDS.
Please keep the ideas coming.

I think you are on the right track.

One thing to check out is the size of the tank verses the skimmer you are using. For example, if you have a good skimmer, say an Aqua C Remora, but put it on a 100 gal tank, you are going to be asking a lot of the skimmer. It's just not big enough to do the job on a tank that size.

On the posts that mention cutting out the light for a few days. This is something worth trying. However, it's only going to do some good if you also keep working on controlling nitrate and phosphate. Otherwise, once you restore light, you end up with the algae regrowing.

Cooking live rock can also work. However, it's a lot of work. I would only consider it if you have been keeping the tank for a year or two, and all the other things you have tried don't seem to work. Cooking live rock is simply another, more extreme, method to control nitrate and phosphate. By cooking the rock, you cut the sources of nitrate and phosphate to 0, and let nature take it's course. The procedure can work very well, but once you are done cooking the rock, and reinstall it, you'll get another algae bloom, if you haven't controlled nitrate and phosphate in the main tank.

A few additional items that can be part of the problem.

Make sure you use a quality salt. If you find that when you mix it, you have to add a bunch of supplements to get good readings, you need a better salt.

Except for calcium additives, don't use other supplements. Many of these additives are wonderful sources of food for algae.

We also haven't talked about the number and size of the fish in the system. You may not have it overcrowded from an oxygen/CO2 standpoint, but you may have too many because the biological systems can't deal with all the waist products.

[fatman]

About the easiest way to lower your phosphate is through the use of Kalkwasser. Not only will it dissipate the phosphate in the new water in which the your Kalkwasser is made up, but it will dissipate the phosphate already in your tank water. As far as removing phosphates and nutrients from your rocks surface and its pores, the easiest method is to just acid etch the rocks. You will remove a thin layer of the rocks surface and basically end up with dead, clean, base rock, but it is quick, cheap, easy and removes copper at the same time. Over all I find that using Kalkwasser for all ATO water keeps phosphates in line (and I use silica sand in remote deep sand beds) and good husbandmanship (water changes and limited feedings, good skimming) keeps nitrogen in line. Randy Holmes-Farley has excellent write ups on phosphates and their control. I would definitely consider cooking your rocks or acid cleaning an option only short of just discarding the rocks as the life left on your rock will be minute or none, neither of which is much better than dead base rock. The wide diversity of life forms typical to good rock will definitely not survive either treatment.

[Scouter Steve]

Here is more info on my set up. My bio load I believe to be fairly light. It consists of:
1 5 inch Mag. Foxface
1 2 1/2 inch sailfin Tang
1 6 inch Tennetti Tang
2 2 inch Solar Wrasse
1 2 inch Yellow Coris Wrasse
1 3 inch One Spot Foxface
1 2 1/2 inch Flame Hawkfish
2 2 inch Firefish
1 3 inch Lawnmower Blenny
1 2 inch Mandarin
1 1 1/2 inch Red Scooter Blenny
I feed once a day, usually an ice cube of frozen homade food consisting of shrimp, scallops, mussel, mysis and chopped up nori.
I do use kalkwasser for all top off through an ATO 24/7 as I have done for over a year now. I was using two part but recently swithched to a CA reactor.
I use Reef Crystal and do a 30 gallon change every week-10 days.
My skimmer is an ASM G4+ maybe 4X whichever one is the biggest of the G-4's with the Sedra 9000 pump
Nitrates hace never been an issue. Most I have ever seen is .25 Salifert. Note that is point 25. Phosphates have never registered.
Keep the questions/suggestions coming!

[Scouter Steve]

I just realized I didn't list tank size! one 125 gallon DT, one 120 Gallon DT, 40 gallon fuge and a 90 gallon sump running half full. So about 300 gallons of water.