Algae/cyano problem

[zeus_roush]

i just went through the same exact stuff. both cyano and what ever that other stuff is. dont know exactly what cured it but i was changing and altering things like crazy. changed metal halides, changed pc, many many water changes, blacking out tank, siponing, cutting light period back, added a 10 gallon seperate refugium, put eggcrate on top with several layers of screening(which i removed a layer every other day) oh and funny thing removed my skimmer. but again not sure what actually fixed the problem. oh and i added a k4 for more flow. all i can say is dont give up and just stay on top of it.

[zeus_roush]

oh and i added two large bags of carbon just in my sump

[surplusrifleguy]

I just had the exact same algae/cyano problems you had. Following the advice of my local fish store, which was to just let it run it's course was a disaster. It got the point of have moving clouds (like fog) in my tank. There was bubbles and brown slime everywhere. After that I starting trying all kinds of methods to beat it (new lights, water changes etc)... NOTHING WORKED. Then I talked to a very experienced fish fish dealer who helped me beat it. My tank is now perfect, all signs of algae/cyano are gone, and my water quality has never been better and more clear. Here is what worked great for me.

1.Purchased Chemi-clean and dosed my tank exactly as it says. I turned off my skimmer and removed my chemi-pure elite. Chemiclean oxidizes organic sediment and sludge. It's labeled fully reef safe on the box. I believe it's made by the company that makes chemi-pure.

2. After 48 hours I did a 10% water change. I used a baster and blasted all the rock clean. I then vacuumed the all the organic matter and waste off of the sand.

3. I immediatley redosed the tank again. Left the skimmer off, and kept out the chemi-pure.

4. 48 hours later I did another 10% water change (cleaning the rock with a baster again). I then turned my skimmer back on (I had to turn the air down a bit) and put the chemi-pure elite back in.

5. Two days later my rock was polished clean, my glass was clean and the sand was perfect. I then installed an eco-aqualizer and my tank still has no algae/cyano issues to this day. A quick note, I truly believe in the eco-aqualizer. I understand what it does cannot be tested for, however, I know my tank and the issues I had before are gone. All of them. Everything seems healthier, my water is very clear and I've gradually cut back on water changes. Even my nitrate and phosphate levels are a lot always lower. I didn't change anthing, except for the addition of the eco-aqualizer.

Last I had several snails in there at the same time to help clean. I would recommend this to anyone fighting the endless battle. I believe my problem was that there was to way to much organic matter in the tank.
Hope this helps, if anyone has similar luck please let us know.

[Paul B]

Surplusrifleguy, That is a good stradegy. I have used Chemi Clean many times with excellent results. Many people do not like adding chemicals to their tanks even though they have ozonizers, calcium injectors, ASW, UV lights etc.
Everything we add to our tanks including the frozen food is alien to our animals. Sometimes we need a little help. Chemi Clean is not an antibiotic like "Red Slime Remover" which I would not use (although it works very well)
If your tank is old enough there is going to be a large quantity of organic matter in there and I don't care what your maintenance schedules are. There are more nooks and crannies in a reef than in a Thomas English Muffin
My tank is very old and I can easily make a sandstorm if I stir it up which I often do. The only think I would add to your post is that after I use Chemi Clean, I use a diatom filter to remove all those particles of dead cyano, diatoms etc.
I do this a couple of times a year. It needs to be done if you have an old tank. It is the main reason my tank has lasted so long.
Have a great day.
Paul

[Octoman]

Paul, I am still suspicious that chemi-clean contains antibiotic. Their claim is that "Most other red slime removers use purely antibiotics" and that theirs specifically contains no "erythromycin succinate"

This sounds suspiciously to me like theirs uses antibiotics along with other chemicals so it is not "purely antibiotics" and they use something other than "erythromycin succinate", most likely another form of erythromycin. Otherwise, why wouldn't they come out and say that it contains no erythromycin or no antibiotics?

[rlcline76]

The secret ingredient that if we knew what it was less people might use it.

[surplusrifleguy]

Originally Posted by Paul B

That is a good stradegy. I have used Chemi Clean many times with excellent results. Many people do not like adding chemicals to their tanks even though they have ozonizers, calcium injectors, ASW, UV lights etc.
Everything we add to our tanks including the frozen food is alien to our animals. Sometimes we need a little help.
Paul

Paul, I feel I couldn't have won the battle without chemiclean. It had no negative effects on anthing in my tank, just the opposite. That combined the eco-aqualizer seemed to jump start and renew my tank. Had I not used chemiclean, my tank may have died. It was that bad. Just another quick note, after using chemiclean and adding the eco-aqualizer, the copepods in my tank went crazy and I still have an huge amount (even more than the fish can eat). Before this I didn't see them very often. I wonder why?

[Paul B]

Octoman I usually don't put too much stock in much of what I read by others but I personally have used the stuff since they invented it. I do my own research. I believe it is an oxidixer as is ozone, hydrogen peroxide and bleach. I spoke to people in the company who told me there is no antibiotic in it. Weather I believe them or not after using it a few dozen times with a tank full of corals I would not hesitate to use it again as I will next week.
I don't think you should dump it in your tank just for the hell of it, it is also expensive and probably way overpriced.
If you read all of the people who have cyano problems and all the things they try you will see that something is needed. It is not caused by too little circulation, phosphates, nitrates, light or the absence of it, spectrum or phases of the moon. It is a bacteria and it is in every tank. Whatever the causes are there is a catalist in many tanks that causes outbreaks. It happens in very new tanks and 40 year old tanks, tanks with new MH lights and old flourescent lamps, tanks with no phosphates and tanks loaded with it.
You can read all the causes and cures and there are dozens, it may be a combination of all of them or none of them. In other words we have no idea what causes it but we know we can eliminate it with a product if at least temporarilly. After that we can remove whatever the product killed which will at least lower whatever organic chemical is left in the water. This alone will benefit the tank. It was mentioned that we can cover the tank for a few days to kill diatoms, cyano, algae etc. and that would also work because again we could suck out the offending nutrients. I have always done this and removed a large amount of dead materials that need to be removed.
Have a great day.
Paul

[surplusrifleguy]

Originally Posted by Paul B

If you read all of the people who have cyano problems and all the things they try you will see that something is needed. It is not caused by too little circulation, phosphates, nitrates, light or the absence of it, spectrum or phases of the moon. It is a bacteria and it is in every tank. Whatever the causes are there is a catalist in many tanks that causes outbreaks. It happens in very new tanks and 40 year old tanks, tanks with new MH lights and old flourescent lamps, tanks with no phosphates and tanks loaded with it.
Paul

Wow Paul, you hit the nail on the head. My phosphate level was zero, my nitrates were very low and my lights were fine. I have no idea what caused it. Thanks for the info.

[goldenmean]

My phosphate level was zero, my nitrates were very low

When you are having a cyno - or an algae - problem your PO4 and NO3 can be 0 or very low as your cyno/algea is using it all up.

[Paul B]

When you are having a cyno - or an algae - problem your PO4 and NO3 can be 0 or very low as your cyno/algea is using it all up.

This is true, thats why it is a very good Idea to try to kill the cyano then remove it thus leaving your water phosphate and nitrate free. If you don't remove it, it will keep recycling those nutrients into new cyano.
This strategy also works for hair algae. Let the offending algae remove the nutrients from the water for you. If you just change the water which measures zero for those substances you are basically wasting money and probably adding more of those substances. Thats why you read posts where people change massive amounts of water every few days with no results.
There is no way to keep PO4 and NO3 out of your tank. You have to feed the animals and those nutrients are a part of food or at least a by product of it. You also need some of those things to nourish the symbiotic algae in the corals. A lighted refugium where the offending algae can be harvested is the best means of defense. Cyano will live better in the dimmer sections of a tank and can be removed with a diatom filter after blowing off the rocks. It may be an ongoing chore or it may just happen occasionally as these things happen in cycles. If you never get algae or cyano your tank may not be old enough or it may not be as healthy as you believe it is. Algae is a natural part of any healthy reef and I have seen cyano growing in the Caymans.
Don't get crazy, it will not kill your fish but it will kill corals by covering them. It just needs to be manually removed and of course we need to be very careful as to how much and what we feed. More food will make it grow faster and make the growing cycles longer.
These cycles is the reason there are so many "cures". The algae usually uses up all of the nutrients then dies and the aquarist think their sea hare or hermit crab ate all the algae. If we harvest the algae after it has the nutrients locked up in it's tissues, we will have effectively prohibited the algae from growing and saved money by not changing the water. If we let the algae just die in our tanks and rot, it will be back worse than before. It needs to be removed. This is part of maintenance like vacuuming your carpet. We can't count on skimmers and carbon to remove everything as they don't remove these nutrients and water changes will not remove nutrients locked up in cyano.
Have a great day.
Paul

[leonick]

Bad Science | Rex's Guide to Planted Tanks

got this about the eco-aqualizer

[Paul B]

I actually never heard of an Eco-aqualizer.