Breeding Clowns from Same Litter / Parents

Colione · 12-17-2008, 12:24 AM

Hey Everyone, I am curious about something.

The plan in store is to get a pair of Woodstock's Picassos. Obviously the thought is there that after I have them for a while, they may mate and lay eggs.

I am wondering what kind of issues can occur because they are from the same litter / have the same parents?

Because these clowns would have the same genes, I can only imagine that you would want to diversify the gene pool by getting two picasso clowns with different parents.

But then again, the ORA site says that all of their picasso's came from a singled mated pair.

So then, do ALL picasso's have the same genes and have all come down from the same mated pair?

For example, Doni's picassos came from different LFSs, but maybe up the chain, they had the same parents.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Are ALL picassos related? Is it going to be a big problem if two picassos from Woodstock mate and have babies?

Let me know your thoughts!!

aceman90567 · 12-21-2008, 05:05 PM

It should be okay but if their are problems then stop breeding. Because the clowns may have birth defects. Good luck i tried to breed but never got to it. I tried the percula breeding. Have you gotten the whole set up ready its a hard thing to breed fish.

goldenmacman · 12-21-2008, 05:06 PM

youll have clowns with downsyndrome

jk
idk, find out what happens!

Colione · 12-22-2008, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceman90567

It should be okay but if their are problems then stop breeding. Because the clowns may have birth defects. Good luck i tried to breed but never got to it. I tried the percula breeding. Have you gotten the whole set up ready its a hard thing to breed fish.

I haven't even gotten the clowns yet!

I wouldn't say I'm planning on it ... but if it happens, I think I would dive in and get all of the gear.

ahahaha... down syndrome. that's horribly funny, and not at all at the same time.

I think I'm going to get one from Woodstock and my LFS is going to order a few from ORA.

jjohnson3 · 01-17-2009, 11:41 PM

I was told 2 clownfish in 1 tank. Is this incorrect? If so I would have love to have had a third or fourth or fifth!

yungreefer2410 · 01-18-2009, 12:03 AM

if your tank is big enough you can have tons of clowns in one tank

nanoty · 02-03-2009, 10:48 AM

I was wondering the same thing. I was going to try and get mine from a few different sources to try and minimize inbreeding. I assumed that even though I might order a pair from my LFS they would most likely be from the same pair anyways.

FallChinook · 02-03-2009, 11:02 AM

Okay, I will speak from my biological background here.......please do not breed offspring from the same brood....i.e. inbreeding. You will likely see increased 'issues' (birth defects, mortality rates, just not as healthy) in at least the first generation and likely generations to come.

lcstorc · 02-03-2009, 11:23 AM

I would avoid breeding from the same brood but I wouldn't avoid other Picassos or even as Doni is doing breeding with another clown.
Even if it all started with one pair the farther separated they are the less likely you are to have problems IMO.
I do like the fact that Doni is introducing new blood and am very curious to see how the babies from that pair color up.

jski711 · 02-03-2009, 12:29 PM

Actually I believe most people breed from the same broodstock.

lcstorc · 02-03-2009, 12:31 PM

But do they then breed the siblings together?

motocrosstcw · 02-03-2009, 12:39 PM

I also am wanting to breed clowns to but as for now i ahve one clarkii and he is good enough i wanna let him take over my tank then introduce another one for him then possibly mate...Cause i do beleive it has to be the dominate clown out of the group that pair.

Dentoid · 02-03-2009, 01:20 PM

Where do you think the Snowcasso and Picasso pattern came from? Genetic transformations most likely due to inbreeding. These genes are not expressed in nature since these fish have been selectively breed in captivity. We think its cute and pay a high price for this side show fish, but it's no different than any other inbreeding genetic transformation.

jski711 · 02-03-2009, 07:53 PM

yes people breed siblings together. In breeders terms it's called line breeding. It is still inbreeding but most people do this when they see a trait that's not normal. Actually there has been Picasso-ish clowns found in the wild so I would not say it's a fact that this morph was due to in breeding. Hth

Jake

jski711 · 02-03-2009, 07:55 PM

And actually these morphs that are not normal also don't happen in the wild due to predators. The only reason you see most albino animals is strictly cause they are easy prey in the wild

12-17-2008, 12:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
Colione Tunicate Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 15 View Gallery Karma Komment	Breeding Clowns from Same Litter / Parents Hey Everyone, I am curious about something. The plan in store is to get a pair of Woodstock's Picassos. Obviously the thought is there that after I have them for a while, they may mate and lay eggs. I am wondering what kind of issues can occur because they are from the same litter / have the same parents? Because these clowns would have the same genes, I can only imagine that you would want to diversify the gene pool by getting two picasso clowns with different parents. But then again, the ORA site says that all of their picasso's came from a singled mated pair. So then, do ALL picasso's have the same genes and have all come down from the same mated pair? For example, Doni's picassos came from different LFSs, but maybe up the chain, they had the same parents. Can anyone shed some light on this? Are ALL picassos related? Is it going to be a big problem if two picassos from Woodstock mate and have babies? Let me know your thoughts!! __________________ Read my 28g Nano Cube Blog from Day 0! Colione's 28g Nano Blog All Pics, No Comments Colione's 28g Nano Reef Forum Thread

12-21-2008, 05:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
aceman90567 Midas Blenny Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 110 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Breeding Clowns from Same Litter / Parents It should be okay but if their are problems then stop breeding. Because the clowns may have birth defects. Good luck i tried to breed but never got to it. I tried the percula breeding. Have you gotten the whole set up ready its a hard thing to breed fish.

01-17-2009, 11:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
jjohnson3 Elegance coral Join Date: May 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 1,056 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Breeding Clowns from Same Litter / Parents I was told 2 clownfish in 1 tank. Is this incorrect? If so I would have love to have had a third or fourth or fifth! __________________ >Jason< reefing........it's an addiction........ Here is how the tank is stocked(this will change) FISH 2-Occelaris Clownfish(mated) 1-Royal Gramma CORAL Pagoda Cup, Open Brain, and 12 awesome LPS frags from PEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

02-03-2009, 10:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
nanoty Tunicate Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 13 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Breeding Clowns from Same Litter / Parents I was wondering the same thing. I was going to try and get mine from a few different sources to try and minimize inbreeding. I assumed that even though I might order a pair from my LFS they would most likely be from the same pair anyways.

02-03-2009, 11:02 AM	#8 (permalink)
FallChinook Star Polyps Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 170 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Breeding Clowns from Same Litter / Parents Okay, I will speak from my biological background here.......please do not breed offspring from the same brood....i.e. inbreeding. You will likely see increased 'issues' (birth defects, mortality rates, just not as healthy) in at least the first generation and likely generations to come.

02-03-2009, 11:23 AM	#9 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 26,433 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Breeding Clowns from Same Litter / Parents I would avoid breeding from the same brood but I wouldn't avoid other Picassos or even as Doni is doing breeding with another clown. Even if it all started with one pair the farther separated they are the less likely you are to have problems IMO. I do like the fact that Doni is introducing new blood and am very curious to see how the babies from that pair color up. __________________ Peace LYNN Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Lynn's frag tank experiment A reef tank is like a race car. The faster you go the harder you crash.

02-03-2009, 12:29 PM	#10 (permalink)
jski711 Torch coral Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: NW Burbs of Chicago Posts: 571 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Breeding Clowns from Same Litter / Parents Actually I believe most people breed from the same broodstock.

02-03-2009, 12:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 26,433 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Breeding Clowns from Same Litter / Parents But do they then breed the siblings together? __________________ Peace LYNN Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Lynn's frag tank experiment A reef tank is like a race car. The faster you go the harder you crash.

02-03-2009, 12:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
motocrosstcw Cabbage Leather Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: allegan michigan Posts: 392 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Breeding Clowns from Same Litter / Parents I also am wanting to breed clowns to but as for now i ahve one clarkii and he is good enough i wanna let him take over my tank then introduce another one for him then possibly mate...Cause i do beleive it has to be the dominate clown out of the group that pair.

02-03-2009, 07:53 PM	#14 (permalink)
jski711 Torch coral Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: NW Burbs of Chicago Posts: 571 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Breeding Clowns from Same Litter / Parents yes people breed siblings together. In breeders terms it's called line breeding. It is still inbreeding but most people do this when they see a trait that's not normal. Actually there has been Picasso-ish clowns found in the wild so I would not say it's a fact that this morph was due to in breeding. Hth Jake

02-03-2009, 07:55 PM	#15 (permalink)
jski711 Torch coral Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: NW Burbs of Chicago Posts: 571 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Breeding Clowns from Same Litter / Parents And actually these morphs that are not normal also don't happen in the wild due to predators. The only reason you see most albino animals is strictly cause they are easy prey in the wild

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