Ich Not getting better

Web2000 · 12-16-2003, 06:47 PM

I've been dealing with a pretty serious outbreak of Ich in my tank for about 2 1/2 weeks. I've been treating with Kick Ich for the last 10 days, also dosing Garlic in their food. I have lost 2 Percula's and a Large Mustard Tang to the infection since I've starting treating. While I'm treating, my UV has been off as well as my Protein Skimmer, and I have not brushed the rocks or anything to help limit the stress. The original cause of the outbreak was a complete overhaul of the inside of the tank. We took all the rock out and scrubbed it and redid my flow inside the tank to a closed loop system. I had been dealing with hair algae for a couple of months and it wasn't getting better. Of course now I'm letting the rock go again becasue I do not want to be inside the tank stressing the fish out. It's not getting too out of hand so I'll be able to clean the new hair algae up when I'm done treating. It's a 120 gallon tank with a 60 gallon refuge/sump. Now to my question!!

After 10 days of treating; I still have 2 more kick ich treatments to put into the tank, my heavily infected fish still have quite a few spots. Shouldn't the spots have started to go away? Is there anything else I should do? Any help you folks can give would be much appreciated!!

Bill

Witfull · 12-16-2003, 06:56 PM

i would turn the UV back on. this will help with freefloating ich.
Keep the lights out and continue treatment.

cheeks69 · 12-16-2003, 07:05 PM

Copper and hyposalinity are the most effective way of ridding the tank of Ick. If you have a quarantine tank, I would remove all inhabitants treat them and leave the display tank fish free for about 5-6 weeks.
Here's a quote from advanced aquarist:
Cryptocaryon irritans is an obligate parasite, meaning that it cannot complete its life cycle (at the trophont stage) without a host fish. Taking into account that the normal time frame in which tomonts will hatch ranges from 3 to 28 days, a fallow (without fish) period of 30 days to 6 weeks is recommended to eliminate this parasite from an aquarium. Removing all potential hosts from a system for this period of time should eradicate the pest from the aquarium. If the fish are removed from the display to another aquarium for treatment and an effective means of therapy (i.e. hyposalinity or copper treatments) is employed, then those fish will be clean of infection.

here's some more info on Ick

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/mini2.htm

cheeks69 · 12-16-2003, 07:09 PM

Also many people believe that if a fish is stressed he'll get Ick, that's a misconception here's another quote from advanced aquarist:

Myth and misconception
It is a common misconception among hobbyists that fish must be in a weakened state before they are susceptible to infection with Cryptocaryon irritans. Stress is a factor as it does reduce immune function in fish. This makes it less likely that fish will develop some level of acquired immunity after becoming infected. However, stress (or weakened condition) is not a prerequisite to infection with Cryptocaryon irritans. Healthy fish that are not unduly stressed are susceptible to infection upon exposure to this pathogen. It is noteworthy that stress has not been mentioned as a factor when infecting fish in clinical trails with Cryptocaryon irritans....Those that hold to this belief often downplay the importance of preventive measures such as quarantining new acquisitions prior to placing them into display aquariums. Cryptocaryon irritans must be introduced into the aquarium before an infection can develop. Generally, this parasite is imported into a system or aquarium with infected fish. Failing to quarantine these new additions puts the established stock at a much greater risk of infection.

Web2000 · 12-16-2003, 07:13 PM

I was specifically told not to keep my UV on while treating because if will magnify the Kick Ich and possibly kill everything in the tank including all corals. I am using the hyposalinity method also, but catching the fish is a rather difficult proposition. My main question is has anyone here used Kick Ich and if so when did they stsrt to see it work? It has been 10 days and it still doesn't seem like it's working.

Thanks
Bill

wooddood · 12-16-2003, 07:21 PM

thanks wit and cheeks,luckily i have never had an ich problem with my saltwater tanks but did on a freshwater tank quite a while back.thanks for the info i will definately keep this info in mind.sorry web i could'nt have helped you out on this one but i think your in very good hands here.dave.

polska · 12-16-2003, 07:40 PM

Web200 I did some reaserch on kick ich and I'm affraid it does not work. The people who used it did not see anit work. Hope someone else will have better news for you, sorry.

cheeks69 · 12-16-2003, 08:00 PM

I have never used Kick Ick Web2000, so I can't really comment on that particular product. I remember a thread a while back on ick and someone there mentioned he had success with that product, I'll see if I can find it.

cheeks69 · 12-16-2003, 08:34 PM

http://www.reefaquariumguide.com/for...&highlight=ick maybe you could PM justvern

Woodstock · 12-16-2003, 08:42 PM

I've dealt with Ich a lot this year because I don't quarantine like I should

. Kick Ich did not work for me. Hyposalinity in a quaratine tank works as does Green-ex(malachite green & quinine HCL) in a quarantine or even the main tank. I've used both with great success.

Marine ICH I:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.htm

Marine ICH II:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-1...ture/index.htm

Craig Manoukian · 12-17-2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cheeks69

It is a common misconception among hobbyists that fish must be in a weakened state before they are susceptible to infection with Cryptocaryon irritans. Stress is a factor as it does reduce immune function in fish.

Good stuff cheeks69! Yes stress is a factor is the key here. Almost the chicken and egg discussion. Doesn't help the current situation though.

If I were in your shoes, I would tear my tank down removing all rock and catch the fish, much easier without rock and less stressful, quarantine and treat. I would put the rock and coral back in the tank and let it lay fallow for 6 weeks, and then put the healthy fish back in the tank when the fish have no appearance of disease or they stay in quarantinre longer. If you are already losing livestock, bummer, you really have no other options IMO.

HTH

johnlewis · 12-29-2003, 11:09 AM

I've read of leaving the lights on longer because the free floater have more of a chance to grab on when the fish sleep, or are still.
I've not had an out break in the last 18 months with cleaner shrimp, on any of the couple of new species I've put in my tank.

mwrager · 12-29-2003, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Witfull
i would turn the UV back on. this will help with freefloating ich.
Keep the lights out and continue treatment.

I am with Witfull on this.

Craig Manoukian · 12-29-2003, 03:23 PM

Any current reports web2000? Hope all is going well.

Web2000 · 12-29-2003, 04:03 PM

I have concluded using the Kick Ich. I lost my 2 Percula's and my Mustard Tang, but everyone else is looking pretty good. My Blue tangs are a bit beat up from scatching themselves, but even they are recoveing nicely now. I did a water change and put carbon in last week to clean out the Kick Ich, and over the weekend I turned back on my UV. I still won't add anything for a few weeks to make sure everyone is alright. So far so good though!!

Bill

12-16-2003, 06:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
Web2000 Bryozoan Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Santa Clarita, CA Posts: 45 View Gallery Karma Komment	Ich Not getting better I've been dealing with a pretty serious outbreak of Ich in my tank for about 2 1/2 weeks. I've been treating with Kick Ich for the last 10 days, also dosing Garlic in their food. I have lost 2 Percula's and a Large Mustard Tang to the infection since I've starting treating. While I'm treating, my UV has been off as well as my Protein Skimmer, and I have not brushed the rocks or anything to help limit the stress. The original cause of the outbreak was a complete overhaul of the inside of the tank. We took all the rock out and scrubbed it and redid my flow inside the tank to a closed loop system. I had been dealing with hair algae for a couple of months and it wasn't getting better. Of course now I'm letting the rock go again becasue I do not want to be inside the tank stressing the fish out. It's not getting too out of hand so I'll be able to clean the new hair algae up when I'm done treating. It's a 120 gallon tank with a 60 gallon refuge/sump. Now to my question!! After 10 days of treating; I still have 2 more kick ich treatments to put into the tank, my heavily infected fish still have quite a few spots. Shouldn't the spots have started to go away? Is there anything else I should do? Any help you folks can give would be much appreciated!! Bill

12-16-2003, 07:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
cheeks69 Wannabe Guru Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northeast Posts: 6,630 View Gallery Karma Komment	Copper and hyposalinity are the most effective way of ridding the tank of Ick. If you have a quarantine tank, I would remove all inhabitants treat them and leave the display tank fish free for about 5-6 weeks. Here's a quote from advanced aquarist: Cryptocaryon irritans is an obligate parasite, meaning that it cannot complete its life cycle (at the trophont stage) without a host fish. Taking into account that the normal time frame in which tomonts will hatch ranges from 3 to 28 days, a fallow (without fish) period of 30 days to 6 weeks is recommended to eliminate this parasite from an aquarium. Removing all potential hosts from a system for this period of time should eradicate the pest from the aquarium. If the fish are removed from the display to another aquarium for treatment and an effective means of therapy (i.e. hyposalinity or copper treatments) is employed, then those fish will be clean of infection. here's some more info on Ick http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/mini2.htm __________________ Robert My Cube “A spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe—a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.” Albert Einstein

12-16-2003, 07:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
cheeks69 Wannabe Guru Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northeast Posts: 6,630 View Gallery Karma Komment	Also many people believe that if a fish is stressed he'll get Ick, that's a misconception here's another quote from advanced aquarist: Myth and misconception It is a common misconception among hobbyists that fish must be in a weakened state before they are susceptible to infection with Cryptocaryon irritans. Stress is a factor as it does reduce immune function in fish. This makes it less likely that fish will develop some level of acquired immunity after becoming infected. However, stress (or weakened condition) is not a prerequisite to infection with Cryptocaryon irritans. Healthy fish that are not unduly stressed are susceptible to infection upon exposure to this pathogen. It is noteworthy that stress has not been mentioned as a factor when infecting fish in clinical trails with Cryptocaryon irritans....Those that hold to this belief often downplay the importance of preventive measures such as quarantining new acquisitions prior to placing them into display aquariums. Cryptocaryon irritans must be introduced into the aquarium before an infection can develop. Generally, this parasite is imported into a system or aquarium with infected fish. Failing to quarantine these new additions puts the established stock at a much greater risk of infection. __________________ Robert My Cube “A spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe—a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.” Albert Einstein

12-16-2003, 07:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
wooddood the wood dude Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CARMEL. INDIANA Posts: 3,450 View Gallery Karma Komment	thanks wit and cheeks,luckily i have never had an ich problem with my saltwater tanks but did on a freshwater tank quite a while back.thanks for the info i will definately keep this info in mind.sorry web i could'nt have helped you out on this one but i think your in very good hands here.dave. __________________ 120 gal/in wall tank/starboard substraight/2 250 watt 10k xm metal halides/ 4 55watt 03 actinics/150lbs lr/scwd on return/scwd on a closed loop/aquaclear aquatics 200 pro wetdry w/skimmer. ask all the questions you have if we cant answer it we'll make up some thing. remember patience is the key to a kick ass reef. dave.

12-16-2003, 07:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
polska Tunicate Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: mi Posts: 18 View Gallery Karma Komment	Web200 I did some reaserch on kick ich and I'm affraid it does not work. The people who used it did not see anit work. Hope someone else will have better news for you, sorry. __________________ 125g

12-16-2003, 07:13 PM	#5 (permalink)
Web2000 Bryozoan Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Santa Clarita, CA Posts: 45 View Gallery Karma Komment	I was specifically told not to keep my UV on while treating because if will magnify the Kick Ich and possibly kill everything in the tank including all corals. I am using the hyposalinity method also, but catching the fish is a rather difficult proposition. My main question is has anyone here used Kick Ich and if so when did they stsrt to see it work? It has been 10 days and it still doesn't seem like it's working. Thanks Bill

12-16-2003, 08:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
cheeks69 Wannabe Guru Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northeast Posts: 6,630 View Gallery Karma Komment	I have never used Kick Ick Web2000, so I can't really comment on that particular product. I remember a thread a while back on ick and someone there mentioned he had success with that product, I'll see if I can find it. __________________ Robert My Cube “A spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe—a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.” Albert Einstein

12-16-2003, 08:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
cheeks69 Wannabe Guru Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northeast Posts: 6,630 View Gallery Karma Komment	http://www.reefaquariumguide.com/for...&highlight=ick maybe you could PM justvern __________________ Robert My Cube “A spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe—a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.” Albert Einstein

12-16-2003, 08:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 22,862 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	I've dealt with Ich a lot this year because I don't quarantine like I should . Kick Ich did not work for me. Hyposalinity in a quaratine tank works as does Green-ex(malachite green & quinine HCL) in a quarantine or even the main tank. I've used both with great success. Marine ICH I: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.htm Marine ICH II: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-1...ture/index.htm __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* ~120 Reef Chronicle ~ *~Breeding Picasso Clownfish~* "Energy and persistence conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________ 120 mixed reef, dual Reeflux 10k 250 MHs, dual Geiseman Actinic T5s,Neptune AC III, ASM g3, 2x Korallia #3, Mag 9.5 return

12-29-2003, 11:09 AM	#12 (permalink)
johnlewis Scopas Tang Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton, MI USA Posts: 448 View Gallery Karma Komment	I've read of leaving the lights on longer because the free floater have more of a chance to grab on when the fish sleep, or are still. I've not had an out break in the last 18 months with cleaner shrimp, on any of the couple of new species I've put in my tank.

12-29-2003, 03:23 PM	#14 (permalink)
Craig Manoukian Regular Guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Marina Del Ray, CA Posts: 17,911 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Any current reports web2000? Hope all is going well. __________________ Currently tankless. 20 Gallon mini reef with mated pair of Maroon Clowns given to Rougiem! 80 gallon reef given to Rougiem/Wooster HS.

12-29-2003, 04:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
Web2000 Bryozoan Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Santa Clarita, CA Posts: 45 View Gallery Karma Komment	I have concluded using the Kick Ich. I lost my 2 Percula's and my Mustard Tang, but everyone else is looking pretty good. My Blue tangs are a bit beat up from scatching themselves, but even they are recoveing nicely now. I did a water change and put carbon in last week to clean out the Kick Ich, and over the weekend I turned back on my UV. I still won't add anything for a few weeks to make sure everyone is alright. So far so good though!! Bill

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