12g new tank nitrate question...

[KeithShumway]

I am new to the hobby with a new tank (6 weeks old). It was stable and all was working fine, I had some green slime building up on the sand and was told that I needed to add a protein skimmer. In the back of the tank I have 3 chambers. In them are a foam filter then, ceramic tubes, then bio balls. I was told to remove the ceramic and replace with the protein skimmer. I did this and after 3 days my nitrate has gone from 0 to about 17. Did removing these ceramics cause this spike? I have about 10 lbs of live rock and 2-3 inches of live sand.

I have a few hermits, some snails, a cleaner shrimp, and a damsel. I also have a small (dime size) mushroom coral.

I am looking for suggestions on how to overcome this. I know I can change water for an immediate fix, but do I need the ceramics to help lower nitrate in the long run?

Thanks for the help.

[Octoman]

The ceramics won't lower nitrate. I would suspect that some particulate material was stirred up/released when you removed the ceramic and this caused your spike in nitrates. That is precisely why it is best to remove them, so you don't build up that material. The skimmer should help bring the nitrates down.

Nitrates are biologically removed by anaerobic bacteria. So if there is oxygen, they can't survive. That is why the don't survive on the ceramic. However, they can live within your live rock where there is no oxygen.


And, Welcome to RS!!!

[lcstorc]

Mark has you on the right track. A few water changes and a bit of time and you should be fine.

[KeithShumway]

Wow that was faster than calling the local store (where I get a different answer every time I call). Thanks for the fast reply... I guess I thought (maybe was told) the nitrate eating bacteria lived in the ceramics...

When should I worry (what number) about nitrates, and how long should I be patient (let it drop on its own) with this spike? Being a newbe I am having trouble with patience, and am a bit worried when I see stuff happening...

[Octoman]

I wouldn't worry too much at 17, but you may see increased algal growth. Around 30 you may see some negative effects to your corals (although mushrooms are pretty tough). Your target level is slightly above 0.

How often do you do water changes? How much do you change?

[BigAl07]

There's no real "Safe" answer to your question Keith. Way too many variables in the picture... let your test results dictate what you do.

Here is a tidbit of information to help you... Reef tanks are very sensitive to elevated levels of Nitrates. Corals can't handle them as well as fish can. I like to see mine in the single digits but if they get into the teens I don't "Sweat" it but I do look for a cause. I think you've already found yours.

Also note that the amount of Nitrate Reduction is directly proportional to percentage of water change. If you do 10% WC you get 10% Nitrate reduction.

Let's say your trates are running 30 right now (just an easy figure) and you do 10% water change. If you test again in a few hours you'll get something like 27 (30 x 0.1 = 3, 30 - 3 = 27). Not a real change so I'd say get somewhat aggressive on your water changes and see how your tank reacts.

when doing ANY water changes always make sure the NSW (New Salt Water) matches your existing SW as closely as all tank parameters (Temp, PH, Salinity). This lessens the potential for stress and shock on your tank critters

Good luck and Happy Reefing

[Octoman]

Wow, nice post Allen!!

I also meant to ask, did you remove the foam filter as well? It can also be a detritus trap/nitrate factory. If you want to keep it, it needs to be cleaned out at least twice a week.

[KeithShumway]

I understand that water changes will reduce nitrate and the math that accompanies the instant drop in nitrate (good explanation by the way). I am hearing that needs to be quickened possibly to help this problem clear itself... I have been doing water changes about once every 10-14 days, and a gallon each time so roughly 10%, I match the waters as close as I can. Is this enough change or do I need to up the frequency or amount?

I have not cleaned the foam filter as often as you suggest (basically I cleaned it when I changed the water and it didn't seem all that dirty), and this was a question I have had. what do I clean when I clean? I am gathering the foam filter twice a week (remove and rinse???), you hint that this filter is not needed, what does it do for me? How about the bio balls, do these need to be cleaned? Is there other cleaning that I should be doing? I looked for a HOW TO CLEAN A TANK thread, but didn't find one

Until this week my nitrates have never been above 5ish so a spike like this and a strange acting shrimp (turns out he was molting) got me into question mode...

Thanks again for the great replies.

[Octoman]

The bioballs should come out too!

Those tanks are set up to run as Fish-only tanks. In a reef, the live rock provides the biological filtration and serves the same function as bioballs or ceramic. Bioballs can cause the same detritus build-up problem. When removing them, just take out a few at a time because it can be a shock to your system to take them all out at once.

The sponge removes particulates from the water, so it is up to you whether you want it or not. On my system, I only put a filter sock in when I'm cleaning the tank so it will catch anything I've stirred up, but I take it out an hour or two later. Some argue that the particulate material is good food for filter feeders and pods and should not be filtered out.

[KeithShumway]

So what you are saying is that in a reef tank I should have nothing in the back chambers besides a protein skimmer??? The Live rock does the same job...

[Octoman]

Yes, but you may want to add a little more live rock. Maybe another 5-8 pounds. Also, you are pretty much limited to one fish (2-3" max adult size) in that tank if you want to maintain good water quality.

[KeithShumway]

More Live Rock is on the way as soon as the local store gets some acceptable pieces in. The selection in Alaska is slim, and getting it here is expensive...


Thanks all for the help, I'll update this thread with more questions if my problem persists.

[Octoman]

Originally Posted by KeithShumway

I'll update this thread with more questions if my problem persists.

We need pictures too!! You should start a chronicle over in the "reef chronicles" forum...

[KeithShumway]

I'll do that... Right now it is not much to look at, as soon as I become the slightest bit proud, I'll post pictures.

Which leads into another topic... The tank seems very dirty to me... looking at others pictures I do not see the build up I seem to have... The sand has that green slime I was talking about earlier... The back wall looks like old cob webs in a barn that have collected dust... I'm sure all this has names, but being new I am not sure what it is all called or if it is good or bad... any help here?

[yungreefer2410]

use a mag float to clean the glass. maybe u should get more snails. how big is ur tank again? don't be afraid to post pics, no one will make fun of u only offer advice and tips