TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank?

djbacon · 01-29-2008, 11:36 PM

OK, so I've been through stage 1 of cycle, things are cool. Did a 50% water change over the weekend, added a CUC, and tested the water tonight,

NH3/4 at 1.5 mg/l after 10 minutes
N03 at 25mg/l

How could this be I asked myself. With only 7 snails a shrimp and a hermit crab after a large water change?

So I tested again, still high...so I changed out a couple more gallons... Still high.

Both kits say to wait 10-20 minutes for coloration to complete. I finally tested my saltwater fresh from the jug. I buy it at the LFS. IT STILL READS HIGH !!

The LFS got the same readings I did using 2 different tests, both tetra and sera. But their store store is vibrant and alive and they use the same exact water that they sell pre mixed....They are sure it can't be anything wrong with the water or everything in their tanks would be in trouble. Seems logical.

Is the 20 minute rule for coloration too long? Seems the longer it sits the darker the results get.

So now I have changed out about 70% of my water. I'm concerned I changed out all the good nitrifying bacteria with it. Did I completely screw up my cycle?

Arrggggh - can anyone recommend a GOOD test kit?

panmanmatt · 01-29-2008, 11:39 PM

It's obvious that it's not your kit if the LFS got the same readings. Maybe they should run a test on their system.

JWarren · 01-30-2008, 12:14 AM

how long did you cycle?

What type of stsem do you have?

We need more info.

BigAl07 · 01-30-2008, 12:16 AM

It's possible the LFS has a better system to handle it! Also keep in mind it's ONE thing to have fish in your system for a few days and then sell them to the customer and another to have your HOME system stay like that.

Time for your own RO/DI system

djbacon · 01-30-2008, 12:19 AM

Sorry - more deets.

14 g biocube. Cycled with 14 lbs cured live rock, live sand and premix saltwater from the LFS for about 24 days until ammonia and NO2 were 0 (confirmed tests with LFS). Started cycled using deli shrimp. Removed after a couple weeks. Saw a little brown algae bloom. then moved forward just this weekend.

JWarren · 01-30-2008, 12:26 AM

What type of filtration do you have in place?

Are you skimming?

reefman420 · 01-30-2008, 12:27 AM

sounds like phosphates,get an rodi,u cant always trust the LFS

djbacon · 01-30-2008, 12:29 AM

Filtration - just the live rock, + a skimmer (oceanic - made for the 14 and 29g BCs). I removed the bioballs and sponge from the tank. Put some more cured live rock in the rear chamber. There is some filter floss submerged just over the live rock betweeen chambers 1 and 2. Replaced that this weekend when I did the major water change.

JWarren · 01-30-2008, 12:31 AM

Did your nitrates ever start coming up before you did the water change and if so, what did they rise to?

djbacon · 01-30-2008, 12:36 AM

Can you explain to me how phosphates can screw up the ammonia and Nitrate tests? This shop is the most reputable one in town, I really want to trust them. They specialize in reefs and exotic salt water stuff. They have enormous filters and RO / DI systems and sumps as big as my car under the shop. They also made me buy books and go read them before they would let me consider buying a tank so I gotta give em credit.

djbacon · 01-30-2008, 12:39 AM

yeah,. nitrates went between 50-100 - now reading much lower, 12.5ish to 25 but should NOT be showing in fresh uncirculated saltmix.

Should note the mix does read slightly lower than my tank but still....

JWarren · 01-30-2008, 12:39 AM

Forget the phosphates for now, need to try and determine what was going on before the water change. Did you take a reading before you changed water?

JWarren · 01-30-2008, 12:46 AM

Don't do anything for the rest of the evening. Take some readings tomorrow and see what they look like.

You shouldnt have nitrates visible in your change water. I don't know what is up with that unless you used the same bucket your tank water was used to dump without rinsing it.

If your ammonia is high tomorrow, get in touch with your LFS and get a sample to them.

djbacon · 01-30-2008, 01:00 AM

yeah.. I brought my test results to the store. they tested their water as well and got the same results. They even used 2 differnent kits. they were puzzled but about to close so they said they would take a closer look in the morning and I should come back and they'd let me know what they found. The levels are not horrbly high but they should be flat. Its a conundrum. All their fish and coral use the same water/system and are thriving

just to add to the curiosity of all this,there are now what appear to hundreds of microscopic insects on the bcak wall of my tank. Seem to have been displaced by the water change. I looked really close and sawe them scurrying around. Not sure what the thell they are...

JWarren · 01-30-2008, 01:07 AM

Pods.
You'll be alright, just got a little imbalance right now. Let it settle over night and check tomorrow.

01-29-2008, 11:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
djbacon Neon dottyback Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 601 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? OK, so I've been through stage 1 of cycle, things are cool. Did a 50% water change over the weekend, added a CUC, and tested the water tonight, NH3/4 at 1.5 mg/l after 10 minutes N03 at 25mg/l How could this be I asked myself. With only 7 snails a shrimp and a hermit crab after a large water change? So I tested again, still high...so I changed out a couple more gallons... Still high. Both kits say to wait 10-20 minutes for coloration to complete. I finally tested my saltwater fresh from the jug. I buy it at the LFS. IT STILL READS HIGH !! The LFS got the same readings I did using 2 different tests, both tetra and sera. But their store store is vibrant and alive and they use the same exact water that they sell pre mixed....They are sure it can't be anything wrong with the water or everything in their tanks would be in trouble. Seems logical. Is the 20 minute rule for coloration too long? Seems the longer it sits the darker the results get. So now I have changed out about 70% of my water. I'm concerned I changed out all the good nitrifying bacteria with it. Did I completely screw up my cycle? Arrggggh - can anyone recommend a GOOD test kit? __________________ Check out my awesome 14g nanoreef in progress - http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ater-tank.html The Nano Club - It's not the size of the reef. It's what's in it that counts

01-29-2008, 11:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
panmanmatt Golden Moray Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Waretown, NJ Posts: 2,255 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? It's obvious that it's not your kit if the LFS got the same readings. Maybe they should run a test on their system. __________________ The mind is like a parachute, it only works when opened. (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(")

01-30-2008, 12:14 AM	#3 (permalink)
JWarren Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida Posts: 1,426 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? how long did you cycle? What type of stsem do you have? We need more info. __________________ John Typhoon RO/DI filter unit. My Saltwater web site. Help build ReefPedia!

01-30-2008, 12:16 AM	#4 (permalink)
BigAl07 Do I look as lost as I am Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 21,549 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? It's possible the LFS has a better system to handle it! Also keep in mind it's ONE thing to have fish in your system for a few days and then sell them to the customer and another to have your HOME system stay like that. Time for your own RO/DI system __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ *Live Rock Rubble will do the SAME thing as Bio-Balls and is NOT a suitable replacement for BIO-BALLS in a Reef System! It's ALL gotta go!!* Nitrate (NO3) reduction is directly proportional to percentage of Water Change. Allen's home-made formula...currentNO3-((%WC.01)currentNO3)=finalNO3 (thanks Luukosian) This means if you change 50% of your total water volume (That's EVERYTHING) you'll get a net reduction of (NO3) somewhere around 50%. Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube Gone but not forgotten BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Allens OFFICE 12g Nano-Reef

01-30-2008, 12:19 AM	#5 (permalink)
djbacon Neon dottyback Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 601 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? Sorry - more deets. 14 g biocube. Cycled with 14 lbs cured live rock, live sand and premix saltwater from the LFS for about 24 days until ammonia and NO2 were 0 (confirmed tests with LFS). Started cycled using deli shrimp. Removed after a couple weeks. Saw a little brown algae bloom. then moved forward just this weekend. __________________ Check out my awesome 14g nanoreef in progress - http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ater-tank.html The Nano Club - It's not the size of the reef. It's what's in it that counts

01-30-2008, 12:26 AM	#6 (permalink)
JWarren Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida Posts: 1,426 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? What type of filtration do you have in place? Are you skimming? __________________ John Typhoon RO/DI filter unit. My Saltwater web site. Help build ReefPedia!

01-30-2008, 12:27 AM	#7 (permalink)
reefman420 Elegance coral Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: minneapolis Posts: 1,085 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? sounds like phosphates,get an rodi,u cant always trust the LFS __________________ 155 oceanic bow front,20 long refuge packed with caluerpa and mangroves,40 gallon sump,175lbs LR,3x250 watt xm 10ks,aqua-c remora,and pro-clear 150 skimmers sailfin tang,kole tang,royal gramma,cinnimon clown,2xpink skunk clowns,six line wrasse,mandarin, 155 bow coral-orange montipora cap,superman monti cap,scripps green polyped staghorn,ORA pink poccilipora,ORA blue millipora,green slimer,yellow UK acro,pink birdsnest,armor of god zoas,various zoas and shrooms,hammer,frogspawn,clove polyps,favite,fancey toadstool,reg toadstool,yellow leather,purple leather,devils hand,2 types xenia,ricordea florida,ricordea yuma,kenya tree,galaxia,bubble coral,button polyps inverts are lots of snails and hermits,crocea clam,maxima clam and seabae anemone,rbta

01-30-2008, 12:29 AM	#8 (permalink)
djbacon Neon dottyback Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 601 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? Filtration - just the live rock, + a skimmer (oceanic - made for the 14 and 29g BCs). I removed the bioballs and sponge from the tank. Put some more cured live rock in the rear chamber. There is some filter floss submerged just over the live rock betweeen chambers 1 and 2. Replaced that this weekend when I did the major water change. __________________ Check out my awesome 14g nanoreef in progress - http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ater-tank.html The Nano Club - It's not the size of the reef. It's what's in it that counts

01-30-2008, 12:31 AM	#9 (permalink)
JWarren Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida Posts: 1,426 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? Did your nitrates ever start coming up before you did the water change and if so, what did they rise to? __________________ John Typhoon RO/DI filter unit. My Saltwater web site. Help build ReefPedia!

01-30-2008, 12:36 AM	#10 (permalink)
djbacon Neon dottyback Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 601 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? Can you explain to me how phosphates can screw up the ammonia and Nitrate tests? This shop is the most reputable one in town, I really want to trust them. They specialize in reefs and exotic salt water stuff. They have enormous filters and RO / DI systems and sumps as big as my car under the shop. They also made me buy books and go read them before they would let me consider buying a tank so I gotta give em credit. __________________ Check out my awesome 14g nanoreef in progress - http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ater-tank.html The Nano Club - It's not the size of the reef. It's what's in it that counts

01-30-2008, 12:39 AM	#11 (permalink)
djbacon Neon dottyback Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 601 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? yeah,. nitrates went between 50-100 - now reading much lower, 12.5ish to 25 but should NOT be showing in fresh uncirculated saltmix. Should note the mix does read slightly lower than my tank but still.... __________________ Check out my awesome 14g nanoreef in progress - http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ater-tank.html The Nano Club - It's not the size of the reef. It's what's in it that counts

01-30-2008, 12:39 AM	#12 (permalink)
JWarren Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida Posts: 1,426 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? Forget the phosphates for now, need to try and determine what was going on before the water change. Did you take a reading before you changed water? __________________ John Typhoon RO/DI filter unit. My Saltwater web site. Help build ReefPedia!

01-30-2008, 12:46 AM	#13 (permalink)
JWarren Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida Posts: 1,426 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? Don't do anything for the rest of the evening. Take some readings tomorrow and see what they look like. You shouldnt have nitrates visible in your change water. I don't know what is up with that unless you used the same bucket your tank water was used to dump without rinsing it. If your ammonia is high tomorrow, get in touch with your LFS and get a sample to them. __________________ John Typhoon RO/DI filter unit. My Saltwater web site. Help build ReefPedia!

01-30-2008, 01:00 AM	#14 (permalink)
djbacon Neon dottyback Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: San Francisco Posts: 601 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? yeah.. I brought my test results to the store. they tested their water as well and got the same results. They even used 2 differnent kits. they were puzzled but about to close so they said they would take a closer look in the morning and I should come back and they'd let me know what they found. The levels are not horrbly high but they should be flat. Its a conundrum. All their fish and coral use the same water/system and are thriving just to add to the curiosity of all this,there are now what appear to hundreds of microscopic insects on the bcak wall of my tank. Seem to have been displaced by the water change. I looked really close and sawe them scurrying around. Not sure what the thell they are... __________________ Check out my awesome 14g nanoreef in progress - http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...ater-tank.html The Nano Club - It's not the size of the reef. It's what's in it that counts

01-30-2008, 01:07 AM	#15 (permalink)
JWarren Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida Posts: 1,426 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: TETRA KITS SUCK - Did I screw up my tank? Pods. You'll be alright, just got a little imbalance right now. Let it settle over night and check tomorrow. __________________ John Typhoon RO/DI filter unit. My Saltwater web site. Help build ReefPedia!

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