2nd amonia spike during cycle?

[djbacon]

Hi everyone,

Im a bit past 2 weeks into my cycle, LIve Rock (cured) live sand, salt water from established tanks at the LFS.

Over the weekend my readings were as expected

PH normal
Temp 80
NH/3NH/4 about 0
N03 between 25-50mg/l

My diatom algae bloom started and now last night, suddenly, my NH3/4 are back upto 1.5 ???

There has been no change to tthe tank. I have since cleaned the filter floss out thinking maybe decompsoition of decaying stuff was in there. I removed the deli shrimp a week ago, and the the bio balls and sponge have been gone since the start.

Any ideas? There is a think layer of skum at the top of the water level where I got my sample - is it possible that this layer was saturated with NH3/4?

Thanks

[lcstorc]

IMO that is very possible. Do you have something to surface skim the water like an overflow? I would aim a powerhead at the surface of the water to break up the film. Regardless of if it is the problem with the tesing it is decreasing oxygen exchange.

[vdituri]

If you don't have the overflow to help skim the top, try using an airpump with and airstone. Works famously.

[prow]

what is a normal ph??? 7.8-8.4 is a normal range but if your ph swings from 7.8 to 8.4 during 24 hours than that is not normal so what is your ph reading at night after lights on all day and in the morning after lights off all night?? could be the bloom increased that bio film layer on the water surface=no gas exchange, thing will suffocate and cause some die off. but i dout thats it, maybe. i would have someone else test the NH3 with a different kit before i did anything. using a PH to ripple the surface of the water, as suggested, should be done weather it is part of the cause or not

[djbacon]

Thanks all for the replies,

Normal PH = 8.1 and has remained stable throughout the cycle.

I adjusted the powerhead slightly upward to create a litttle more surface turbulance and the thin skum layer has broken up and is gone.

Readings this morning

PH 8.1
NH3 and NH4 at 0
N03 somewhere around 50mg/l (RED)
Temp at a steady 80
Salinity 1.022

Going to give it another 10 days or so. If levels are consistent throughout, I will start to add my CUC.

[prow]

NO3 50???? aaahhh do a 40-50% water change, before algae takes over.

on the ph what is the swing. the ph reading at night after lights on all day and in the morning after lights off all night. they will not be the same.

[djbacon]

I have had the lights off 90% of the time during the cycle so the PH readings have been the same every test. Only tangible algae so far is the diatom bloom (minimal at this point) Thought that was expected. Just this morning I began to see a bit of greening up on the Live Rock. (very subtle)

I was planning on doing a 50% water change before adding my CUC after anohter 10 days or so. Is that too long to wait for the water change?

I thought I was supposed to be completely done with the cycle before changing water.

[prow]

the first part of the nitrogen cycle is complete. the second part will take months/year before the cycle becomes mature. a diatom bloom is normal, but it should be limited. the green should not be growing yet, its most likely hair algae. NO3 feed not only anaerobic bacteria but also algae. there is enough ambient light to provide energy for some growth and that bacterial slime coat that suffocates the rock, kinda like the slime you had on the water surface. wait a sec if you have the time read through this thread Newbies, a little something on cycling/breaking in a new reef tank.

not sure how you are measuring your ph but, the ph will should not be constant esp during cycling. i hope that link helps. read through the whole thing and let me know how your tank doing

[djbacon]

thanks Prow,

Exact PH levels are impossible to tell using the tetra test kit. The color indicates it is always between 8-8.2 but as it's a color chart its difficult to be precise.

I refer back to your article for newbies often.

I am going to start the lights back on their timers this weekend and give it another week before adding the CUC.

I was planning to leave the minimal amounts of brown algae alone until they arrive (they need this for food right?) Or should I start cleaning up the alage in advacne of their arrival?

Perhaps clean the glass before the water change?

[prow]

yeah those tetra kits are junk. i only use tetra for NH3 and NO2 for QT setups. ph i suggest you get a pinpoint monitor or other monitor, seems like a lot of $$$ but its so so worth it and then some.

do start working on the NO3 and dont turn the lights on with NO3 levels that high. anaerobic bacteria grow right under aerobic bacteria and get to the NO3 before it enters the water column. the NO3 in the water column is feeding the algae not the anaerobic bacteria. if lights come on that will provide the energy the algae needs to eat up those nitrates and puff you have aerobic bacteria and algae as your main biofiltration, instead of aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. in the link for newbies go over stage 2 in the first post, i expanded on it later in the thread.

for i really would do a big water change, more if needed, enough to bring down the NO3 to under 10-the lower the better. then get the skimmer and macros going and add some cleaners dont worry about providing enough food for the CUC, should only be adding a few. there will be food for them, hopefully they take out that green stuff before get to established. in a couple weeks you will be wanting/ready to triple your cleaners will trying to prevent any algae growth, as it will be there.

[djbacon]

OK, I will do a 50% water change tonight and re-test in the morning.
Lights stay off until the nitrates are reasonable.
After the weekend I will add a small CUC
Skimmer was installed about 6 days ago.

Shrimp and about 4-5 snails sufficient? Only snails? (14g biocube, 1/3 full of LR)

thanks again for the input

[prow]

sound like a plan i would go ahead and double the snails 8-10. something like 3 trochus, 3 nerite and 3 certh snails.

[burning2nd]

micro bubble from a wooden air stone will do you justice.... but beware of the creep... you will have to clean and check your salt often..

[djbacon]

Frustrated at the moment. Did about a 30% water change (had about that much salt water left over from the LFS) and was planning to do another 20-30% tomorrow. Prior to this change I changed out the filter floss in the back chamber and gave the pump chamber and LR a good blasting with the Turkey baster.

I tested the water after the change (still a decent amount of particulate matter floating around) and my NH3/NH4 had spike back to about 1 mg/l. Can a disruption of previously settled solids affect the water chemistry like this?

I am hoping so....will test again in the morning. Was really looking forward to buying my CUC tomorrow.

[prow]

yes, blowing your rock off can and does do this. but not to worry, your bacteria is still growing, once there enough growth (soon) there will be no spike. plus if you got some of the particles in the test sample might be effecting the results.


o and if you changed teh filter floss out before you blasted the rocks, i would change/clean it out again