Newbies, a little something on cycling/breaking in a new reef tank.

[prow]

Originally Posted by djbacon

I come back to this thread over and over....Seriously, what a tremendous help in getting started :-)

always good to hear, very nice to hear it is helping you

Timing question for you- I'm a little over 6 weeks in now and rather than starting with fish I am starting with coral..Got my first hammer coral a week ago - It is flourishing. I have an order of Zoas (about 25 polyps) on the way for introduction in about another week.

sweet, its actually better to stock your corals first. they increase the micro diversity and corals like your zoas eat up lots of nutrients aswell, great choices on your start up corals

Are 2 week increments sufficient between adding species/bioload in the form of corals? Trying to take this slowly, admittedly the urge to start filling the tank is upon me :-)

hehe, watch out for those impulse buys. just remember to research everything you plan to put in, before you put it in

corals dont add to the bioload directly. you can add as long as the water is stable. the deal with adding corals, aside from setup and a stable ph(alk/ca) and things is mainly two things.
1. they slime up at first until they settle in. the slime feeds bacteria and algae and irritates other corals already there, which may cause them to slime up too. so you dont want to add to many, esp in a nano, or they will slime the entire tank and a blooming will occur. fresh carbon, skimming and water changes help with the slimming. in your 14g, doing a water change the day after additions and adding fresh carbon after the change should take care of that. the older the tank the more slime it will take care of on its own.
2. chemistry changes, everytime you add a coral the uptake of Ca/alk increases(esp alk). it only takes a little time to stablize after additions. you just want to keep on eye on your chemistry (esp alk) and change your dosing accordingly.

I don't plan on putting a fish in there for at least another month or two and even then only one for starters.

after a couple months, max 3, i would add some kind of small fish to keep things growing/diversifying(maturing). a cleaner, algae eater or sandsifter fish, something that not only looks cool but serves a function as well.

My levels appear to be excellent - lighting is cycled in and algae is still minimal. I credit your advice for all this. The CUC has been in for almost 3 weeks and is doing well except for the first couple trochus snails which I appeared to have not acclimated well enough. Died about 2 weeks after introduction to the tank with similar levels as below. Doing weekly 3 g changes in a 14g system.

Temp 79
PH 8-8.1 and steady
Calcium - mid 400's
Alk - 9.5dkh
SG 1.024
Phos - 0
Nitrate - < .12
NH3/4 - 0

YES!!!!! YOU ....

outstanding start! many by now would have killed off a couple fish maybe a coral or two and yet still have unstable tanks. kudos to you i like your 3g/wk water changes, even once the tank is fully stocked, that maybe all you ever need to do, after the system is mature that is

[Woodstock]

Excellent info PROW You got karma

[Marinoman08]

this post is helpful and ever so its agervating.... i got new 150 tank comming... so your telling me its gunna take 90 days for me to add 2 fish?

[prow]

Originally Posted by Marinoman08

this post is helpful and ever so its agervating.... i got new 150 tank comming... so your telling me its gunna take 90 days for me to add 2 fish?

90 days!!! na, you dont have to go that long. i know its a lot and can be frustrating. i did not include times because i wanted those reading it to focus on establishing a solid biofiltration system. however, i did include estimated times for additions, just not until after i expanded on a few things so you can understand and see for yourself when/what/why to add things. i think you just did not read far enough along yet. after the first post, i go a little into the dynamics of algae cycles, carbon cycles, respirations above and below the water surface(gas exchange), base rock vs cured rock stuff like, which effects when you will start stocking. after digesting all that i do give some estimated times for additions. but really every tanks (ecosystem) is unique and the dynamics change from tank to tank. IMO, its best to reach certian goals and proceed from there, not every tanks cycles ammonia nitrite ect..at the same rate. some systems complete the first stage in two weeks time, others may take a full month or more, depending-let the tank tell you when its time. dont have some predetermined number of days your going to add a fish. here is a quote from part of the post on page 3 post 41. do read the thread up to the qoute below.

ok timing wise, and these are estimates, goes something like this, leaving out water changes and stuff but would be doing them;
no lighting, growing aerobics for 3-4wks with shrimp and/or adding organic foods to break down. after stage one in 3-4 wks i then add some cleaners also light up the refugium to encourge what algae will grow to grow in the sump/refugium and add macros to complete with micro algaes plus skim-then one week after the first cleaners were added i add about double the amout of CUC i did the first time-then add more in another week. now its about 4-5wks into it and i start to get my Ca/alk/Mg all good and make any final rock scaping adjustments then add some carbon. it takes about a week or two to get the chemistry settled. i may add some other CUC if needed. now its 6-8wks in and i add my first small fish and start to slowly cycle my lighting in like starting with one hour a day and increasing it 30min every two days. a dig timer is great for this, $15. watching for a NH3 spike, dont usually get one BTW, but am ready to do water changes if it happens. then your off and running-while keeping good husbandry you will have a nice solid little reef going
__________________

so, IMO, if all goes well your first fish will be added in 6-8wks from day one. things need to happen before adding fish, keep in mind we are setting up a system for corals to thrive in, not just for them or fish to survive in.

FYI major kudos for reading up before you even start. i hope knowing, it normally will not take anywhere near 90 days helps with the aggravating part.

in the first post i think this statement might have thrown you off

one fish every 30-45days for the first few months-the time between additions decrease as you go, its up to the tank on when/how long to add or wait. no worries, relax it does go pretty quick after things get going. its those first few months you really got to watch out for

so there i am saying 1 fish after 30days(min) from start up. 2nd fish 30days after that (in 60days (min) from startup). this time shortens big time between additions as you. but again, keep in mind every tank is different, if stage 1 ends up taking 30days to complete, then it may take 45days from startup before you add a fish. depending the setup, using LR(cured/uncured) or base rock with a piece of LR or what not, really effects things. i like to use base rock with a few pieces of LR. this takes more time to populate with bactereia and stuff than if i was to use mature LR. or if you go with a DSB, that takes some time to get going. there are pros and cons with each, i go into this aswell as thread goes on. also the size and type of the first couple fish have a big impact, a 4" tang vs a 4" firefish or goby is very different. the tang will add lots of more waste and needs to be feed more aswell, which adds nutrients. 2 average size gobies will produce far less of a bioload than 1 small tang. there are just too many things to consider to be able to use a time line, can only give ballpark time ranges. depending on what you setup everything with, like if you used uncured rock and needed to cure it or if you used mature LR from a existing well established system, you maybe able to add a fish anywhere from 1wk to 6months. either way, these are not what the average hobbyist uses, though. most get/use rock that is mixed, as in mixed in various stages of establishing/maturing. thats a big reason why a time line just doesnt work. the reading and researching your doing now will pay off huge.


just courious, is that qoute from the first post where you got the 90day thing??

[JWarren]

Yo man!

Why don't you copy some of this over to ReefPedia?

You've already done all the typing.

[grinch]

this is agreat overview, thanks for the info!

[aqualady]

I have had a fish only 90 gal for about 2 years and I want to work toward soft corals. Does that make me an advanced newbie??
I bought my current system used and it has an ancient wet/dry. It does not even resemble the units i've seen on the market now. I am thinking of geting a new one. Should I, or will new bio balls and new protein skimmer mess up my aerobic bacteria? If a new one will be OK any recommendations? How many gal per hour is best? I think my system is fairly stable even with the old and under-sized equipment. How can I best update without too much impact? I have new lights (compact florescents with actinics & moon)) but I am afraid to hook them up for fear of an algea outbreak, am I right on that? I will be buying mail-order live rock/base rock this summer. Any recommendations here? Also, any recommendations for power heads. I have a powersweep 228 but it's not hooked up as it seems to freak out my fish. I'm waiting until I have some lilve rock and such first. I am so confused and overwhelmed by all the products and research out there, some practical advice from real people would be welcome. I live way North (New York state near the Canadian boarder), not alot of suppliers or well stocked stores for reefers. All has to be done mail-order and I want to make the best choices. Any suggestions or advise would be great... Thanks!

[prow]

Originally Posted by aqualady

I have had a fish only 90 gal for about 2 years and I want to work toward soft corals. Does that make me an advanced newbie??
I bought my current system used and it has an ancient wet/dry. It does not even resemble the units i've seen on the market now. I am thinking of geting a new one. Should I, or will new bio balls and new protein skimmer mess up my aerobic bacteria? If a new one will be OK any recommendations? How many gal per hour is best? I think my system is fairly stable even with the old and under-sized equipment. How can I best update without too much impact? I have new lights (compact florescents with actinics & moon)) but I am afraid to hook them up for fear of an algea outbreak, am I right on that? I will be buying mail-order live rock/base rock this summer. Any recommendations here? Also, any recommendations for power heads. I have a powersweep 228 but it's not hooked up as it seems to freak out my fish. I'm waiting until I have some lilve rock and such first. I am so confused and overwhelmed by all the products and research out there, some practical advice from real people would be welcome. I live way North (New York state near the Canadian boarder), not alot of suppliers or well stocked stores for reefers. All has to be done mail-order and I want to make the best choices. Any suggestions or advise would be great... Thanks!

hello and welcome to reefing there are of course many ways to do what your wanting to do. whatever way it will need to be done in steps. first though, before getting into it, need some more info on you current set up. so a few questions;
1. what type of substrate are you using and how deep is it? sandbed/CC/barebottom ect...?
2. what are you using for decor currently?
3. what fish are in there?
4. what lighting do you have, bulb wattage and # of bulbs.
5. what does your clean up crew consist of?
6. what have you been dosing, if anything, and what have you been testing for, what are the results of those tests?
7. testing equipment, what are you using kit wise or monitor wise?
8. other filtration systems, canister filters ect.. whatever else is being used.
+ more, but first lets lets see what needs to be changed and/or what needs to be added.

suggestions on powerheads and skimmer, many actually and yes your aerobic bacteria will get messed with during this change, timing is important on what and when to change up this or that. your going to have to do it in steps. i hope you dont mind but i will post a new thread for you with your post above. only because its going to get into more involved than just filtration, although that will be the main focus. others will chime in too, so you will get more and better suggestions on where to buy this or that. no worries though, your in the right place to get some good honest feedback.
here is the thread i started for you. if would rather post here feel free, just thought it would better to post in the gen sec to get some feedback step by step. new members converstion, FO to reef with softies

[djbacon]

Just a quick question here - Are the bubbles like this emerging regularly from my sand bed evidence that my anerobic bacteria are doing well and converting the nitrates in my tank to nitrogen gas?

[BarbMazz]

I think so! And your rock is looking GREAT!

[prow]

yep, those be nitro bubbles like a diatom bloom kinda marks the establishment of aerobic bacteria, nitro bubbles mark the establishment of anaerobics. the bubbles may increase to where it looks like you put a bubble wand in the tank. but the growths will calm down and the bubble will decrease big time in a few. one thing though, untill your anaerobics calm down, blow off your rocks and top of your sandbed. try to not allow any bubbles to get trapped by algae and bacterias like dinos and cyano. tanks coming along nicely by the way

[cre8tivesoul7]

U ROCK! This is the first thing Im printing...thanks for taking time to help newbies...

[prow]

no problem, just giving a little back to a place i have got so much from O BTW, welcome to RS.

[newbies]

Thanks for all the info. It helps a lot as I have been getting conflicting info from things I have read vs. what the LFS's have to say.

[Emperor559]

Ok so does this mean you have a lot of anaerobic die off when you gravel vac?