Blue damsel not moving

phototech · 12-27-2007, 01:23 PM

Hi,

Our family just started a saltwater reef aquarium (29 gal. BioCube), that was installed by the owner of the marine aquarium supply store this past weekend. We have added five damsels of different types. There is a pecking order being established, with the black & white striped damsel at the top of the list. We had to remove the yellow-bellied damsel due to a bubble that formed under its right eye, apparently from an injury. It was quarantined and treated with Epsom salt for a day and then returned to the main tank. We were contemplating removing the black & white striped one, since it was becoming aggressive toward the other fish, particularly the injured one.

At this time, our blue damsel has parked itself in the bottom front corner of the tank, in the open, and it doesn't budge, even for feeding, except to move under the rocks at night. I don't know if this is due to acclimating to a new environment or stress from other more aggressive fish or having the rocks moved and nets swirling around the tank. My wife wants to make sure that there's not something wrong with the fish. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Mark

lcstorc · 12-27-2007, 01:28 PM

Welcome to RS!

Was the tank cycled or are you cuycling with the damsels? If you are cycling with the Damsels you are likely to stress and/or kill them during the initial cycle.
Do you have LR? If so how much? Was it fully cured? How long has the tank been up? What are your water parameters?
Sorry but it is difficult to help without some background.

phototech · 12-27-2007, 01:38 PM

The shop owner brought 15 lbs of live rock (I assume he cured it), live sand, and pumped in the salt water from a large tank in his truck. The tank was set up on Sunday. It is cycling now, and the shop owner told us to bring back a water sample this weekend so he can test it and make any corrections necessary. Hope this helps!

Regards,
Mark

blue_eyes53813 · 12-27-2007, 01:39 PM

Hello welcome to Rs. If the tank is new the fish will all be very stressed and have a hard time adjusting. The tank will go through what we call a "cycle" Which is 1st ammonia ( the hardest on the fish) Water becomes acid like, Very hard on the fish and most of them die, 2nd stage is nitrite ( not as hard on them) but still unpleasant, and lastly nitrates ( the easiest stage). If the tank is new and has not went through these stages I would take them back and get some Deli frozen/already dead shrimp from the grocery store and put that in the tank , It decays and the cycle stages produce the beneficial bacteria needed for the tank.

The Tank Cycling Process, and Ways to Cycle a Saltwater Aquarium

Here is some good reading on cycling a tank. I wouldnt buy anymore fish until the tank has cycled which could be as long as 8 weeks. Buy the test kits ammonia,nitrites and nitrates and when all levels rise to a high level and fall back to 0, the tank may be ready for additions but still only add 1 fish every few weeks, Good Luck

JFK_Jr · 12-27-2007, 02:18 PM

Hi Mark...

Welcome to Reef Sanctuary...

It sounds like you need to do some serious research. You want to be able to setup and know everything there is to know about your tank and equipment, and not have to rely on someone to do it for you. Believe me... you will get sooo much more enjoyment from this hobby when you possess the necessary knowledge. You must always be leery of advice from people who will profit from your mistakes.

This is an expensive hobby, and the last thing you want to do is make unnecessary mistakes. I would spend some time researching here and read some good books... there's a great search feature here on RS, and there is an entire forum dedicated to Nano tanks.

Try to go slow and be patient... it takes time to get things right in this hobby... disasters happen quick...

Good Luck...

Witfull · 12-27-2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFK_Jr

You must always be leery of advice from people who will profit from your mistakes.

ive heard that before JFK~

welcome to RS Mark and family!

ragvette · 12-27-2007, 02:28 PM

First, Welcome to RS

My thinking is the blue damsel is scared. I personally don't like the strip (black&white) damsel because they are very aggressive fish. You have a few choices, either return the blue damsel to the store (they recommended it so they shouldn't have a problem taking it back) or remove the strip damsel because it's the aggressive one or third, provide more hiding spaces in the tank for the blue damsel until everything settles down.

If you decide to return the black&white damsel, don’t get another damsel. My thinking is you either have one or three of the same color/breed of damsels. Never just have two because they will both fight.

Your setup with the Cured Live Rock, Live Sand and the Damsels are all you need to cycle, let everything settle down now and you should be fine.

lcstorc · 12-27-2007, 02:36 PM

One more note. Get your own test kits. Do not rely on your LFS to test the water. Often they do a sloppy job and do not wait the appropriate amount of time for the true results of the tests. They can be a great backup if you get unexpected levels in the tank and you can have them double check but that is all I would do. Also do not accept an everything is ok statement. Get the numbers and write them down. The numbers of your levels is one of the most important things when trying to troubleshoot a problem.
Personally I would return all of the damsels and put a deli shrimp in there to cycle. It is much more humaine and you don't get stuck with a fish you are not going to want later. With that size tank you will be very limited on the number of fish you can have so you will probably want to get rid of the damsels eventually anyway.

Dentoid · 12-27-2007, 03:18 PM

Welcome Mark! What a pity that those poor fish must suffer because of a misguided and out-of-date LFS employee. Five damsels are an overload for a 29 gallon Biocube for starters. Because space is limited, they will quarrel and fight until only one or two are left, if they don't die from the cycling process first. I guess the person that set up your tank was expecting some or all of them to die. The hiding fish is most likely terrified.

A modern approach to reef keeping is cycling the tank with shrimp you get from the grocery store rather than subjecting live tropical fish to the toxic process. Also, more than likely within 6-8 month you are going to want prettier, more exotic fish than Damsels, if they live, and they are going to prove to be difficult to catch without tearing down your now beautifully growing tank.

My advice is to ditch the LFS guy, give back the Damsels, get your money back and tell him you are going to do it your way. We'll be glad to help.

12-27-2007, 01:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
phototech Tunicate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2 View Gallery Karma Komment	Blue damsel not moving Hi, Our family just started a saltwater reef aquarium (29 gal. BioCube), that was installed by the owner of the marine aquarium supply store this past weekend. We have added five damsels of different types. There is a pecking order being established, with the black & white striped damsel at the top of the list. We had to remove the yellow-bellied damsel due to a bubble that formed under its right eye, apparently from an injury. It was quarantined and treated with Epsom salt for a day and then returned to the main tank. We were contemplating removing the black & white striped one, since it was becoming aggressive toward the other fish, particularly the injured one. At this time, our blue damsel has parked itself in the bottom front corner of the tank, in the open, and it doesn't budge, even for feeding, except to move under the rocks at night. I don't know if this is due to acclimating to a new environment or stress from other more aggressive fish or having the rocks moved and nets swirling around the tank. My wife wants to make sure that there's not something wrong with the fish. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Mark

12-27-2007, 01:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 20,778 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Blue damsel not moving Welcome to RS! Was the tank cycled or are you cuycling with the damsels? If you are cycling with the Damsels you are likely to stress and/or kill them during the initial cycle. Do you have LR? If so how much? Was it fully cured? How long has the tank been up? What are your water parameters? Sorry but it is difficult to help without some background. __________________ Peace LYNN You can't change the past but you can change how you view it. A reef tank is like a racecar. The faster you go the harder you crash. Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Every 60 seconds you spend upset is a minute of happiness you'll never get back. In Loving Memory Of Z 01/22/07 - 08/19/08

12-27-2007, 01:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
phototech Tunicate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Blue damsel not moving The shop owner brought 15 lbs of live rock (I assume he cured it), live sand, and pumped in the salt water from a large tank in his truck. The tank was set up on Sunday. It is cycling now, and the shop owner told us to bring back a water sample this weekend so he can test it and make any corrections necessary. Hope this helps! Regards, Mark

12-27-2007, 01:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
blue_eyes53813 Hey!Its not my fault Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lancaster, Wisconsin Posts: 6,879 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Blue damsel not moving Hello welcome to Rs. If the tank is new the fish will all be very stressed and have a hard time adjusting. The tank will go through what we call a "cycle" Which is 1st ammonia ( the hardest on the fish) Water becomes acid like, Very hard on the fish and most of them die, 2nd stage is nitrite ( not as hard on them) but still unpleasant, and lastly nitrates ( the easiest stage). If the tank is new and has not went through these stages I would take them back and get some Deli frozen/already dead shrimp from the grocery store and put that in the tank , It decays and the cycle stages produce the beneficial bacteria needed for the tank. The Tank Cycling Process, and Ways to Cycle a Saltwater Aquarium Here is some good reading on cycling a tank. I wouldnt buy anymore fish until the tank has cycled which could be as long as 8 weeks. Buy the test kits ammonia,nitrites and nitrates and when all levels rise to a high level and fall back to 0, the tank may be ready for additions but still only add 1 fish every few weeks, Good Luck __________________ 265 Gallon Reef built into basement wall. Lighting = 6x250 watts MH, 2x96 watt PC ,and 2x140 watt VHO for a total watt of 1,972 watts . New addition on 4-14-07 of 100 gallon sump and 100 gallon refugium. I think I have lost my mind. Gotta love this hobby Vicki Life is like a pathway of untrodden snow. Be careful how you step in it for every mark will show Definition of FRIENDSHIP: All lives touch other lives to create something new and alive My tank chronicles. http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...wall-reef.html

12-27-2007, 02:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
JFK_Jr Golden Moray Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hallandale Beach FL Posts: 2,108 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Blue damsel not moving Hi Mark... Welcome to Reef Sanctuary... It sounds like you need to do some serious research. You want to be able to setup and know everything there is to know about your tank and equipment, and not have to rely on someone to do it for you. Believe me... you will get sooo much more enjoyment from this hobby when you possess the necessary knowledge. You must always be leery of advice from people who will profit from your mistakes. This is an expensive hobby, and the last thing you want to do is make unnecessary mistakes. I would spend some time researching here and read some good books... there's a great search feature here on RS, and there is an entire forum dedicated to Nano tanks. Try to go slow and be patient... it takes time to get things right in this hobby... disasters happen quick... Good Luck... __________________ *JFK_Jr's 150 Gallon Starphire*

12-27-2007, 02:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
ragvette Ricordea Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lake Villa, IL Posts: 183 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Blue damsel not moving First, Welcome to RS My thinking is the blue damsel is scared. I personally don't like the strip (black&white) damsel because they are very aggressive fish. You have a few choices, either return the blue damsel to the store (they recommended it so they shouldn't have a problem taking it back) or remove the strip damsel because it's the aggressive one or third, provide more hiding spaces in the tank for the blue damsel until everything settles down. If you decide to return the black&white damsel, don’t get another damsel. My thinking is you either have one or three of the same color/breed of damsels. Never just have two because they will both fight. Your setup with the Cured Live Rock, Live Sand and the Damsels are all you need to cycle, let everything settle down now and you should be fine. __________________ -Rodney My 20gal Nano Chronicle My 65gal Chronicle Reef Store Locator

12-27-2007, 02:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 20,778 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Blue damsel not moving One more note. Get your own test kits. Do not rely on your LFS to test the water. Often they do a sloppy job and do not wait the appropriate amount of time for the true results of the tests. They can be a great backup if you get unexpected levels in the tank and you can have them double check but that is all I would do. Also do not accept an everything is ok statement. Get the numbers and write them down. The numbers of your levels is one of the most important things when trying to troubleshoot a problem. Personally I would return all of the damsels and put a deli shrimp in there to cycle. It is much more humaine and you don't get stuck with a fish you are not going to want later. With that size tank you will be very limited on the number of fish you can have so you will probably want to get rid of the damsels eventually anyway. __________________ Peace LYNN You can't change the past but you can change how you view it. A reef tank is like a racecar. The faster you go the harder you crash. Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Every 60 seconds you spend upset is a minute of happiness you'll never get back. In Loving Memory Of Z 01/22/07 - 08/19/08

12-27-2007, 03:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
Dentoid Over Achiever Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 10,258 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Blue damsel not moving Welcome Mark! What a pity that those poor fish must suffer because of a misguided and out-of-date LFS employee. Five damsels are an overload for a 29 gallon Biocube for starters. Because space is limited, they will quarrel and fight until only one or two are left, if they don't die from the cycling process first. I guess the person that set up your tank was expecting some or all of them to die. The hiding fish is most likely terrified. A modern approach to reef keeping is cycling the tank with shrimp you get from the grocery store rather than subjecting live tropical fish to the toxic process. Also, more than likely within 6-8 month you are going to want prettier, more exotic fish than Damsels, if they live, and they are going to prove to be difficult to catch without tearing down your now beautifully growing tank. My advice is to ditch the LFS guy, give back the Damsels, get your money back and tell him you are going to do it your way. We'll be glad to help. __________________ Scott Dentoid's Reeforama

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