Hair algae

[Spooda420]

ACK! I am at wits end here guys...I came hope today and felt compled to do something about my hair algae program (its not really really bad) but bad enough that I thought I should take some corrective measures.

Quick back ground on the tank. Its been set up and running for close to a year.

120 gallon tank 60"x18"x26"
2-3 inch "agronite live sand bed"
2-30 gallon sumps with about 5-7 inches of sand in them with Chaeto algae (HA is down there also)
remora pro skimmer with a mag 3 pump
tetra 2 pond UV sterilizer w/ new bulb
2 - 175w MH 2 110w actinics
2- 900gph PHs
1 - 1100 gph return pump dialed back to meet the flow of a
LifeReef Overflow
185 lbs LR
approx 200 lbs total subtrate
my test kits/LFS test came out to 0/0/0 and .3 PO4
AirWaterIce RODI with an addition DI unit (filters were changed less than 6 weeks ago.
Running PhosBan for hmmm.... 4 weeks w/ no change in PO4

I feed very lightly and when I do its rinsed in RODI-DI.

The actinics are on for about 11 hrs the MHs are on for 9 hrs
sump lights are on for 11 hrs (lights need to be replaced around easter this year.)

I an seriously thinking about bombing it and starting over.

Should I pull out all the subtrate in the main tank? and go BB?
Could that be the problem, its becoming a nutrient sink?
Or add lots more PhosBan to remove all the PO4? And leave the rest of the HA and LR/LS in there?

This is really pissing me off, the more I look at it the more I want to karate chop the tank and spend all my money on home theater!

What should my next step be?

Any help is obviously greatly appreciated.
Chris

[Maxx]

Chris,
I doubt that the DSB is the root of this. It hasnt been set up long enough to become a sink just yet from my understanding of DSB's, and how they operate.
I wish I could help you out more....I'll have Mojo and Boomer take a look see....
Nick

[sorcerer]

Chris,
Don't give up hope yet, I fought with a major hair algae outbreak for 4 months and finally got it cleared up. Mine was triggered by a change from VHO and PC lights to MH and VHO lights and the addition of a coral with a little hair algae on it. I finally got mine under control by reducing my lighting period by an hour and a half on each side.

My lighting was running about what you are when I started, you might want to try reducing it and see if that helps...

[NaH2O]

Chris, possibly your LR? Read the thread of Cougra's Hair Algae Issues. Gads, you are seeing a PO4 reading - which test kit did you use?

[Curtswearing]

Chris,

We'll get your problem solved. Are you still using that food that comes in the big can that we saw at Reef Solutions? If so, discontinue it's use. (All foods have phosphates, it's just that some have more than others)

We need to hit this from several fronts. Do me a favor and take some of your RO/DI water, mix it with salt and give me the readings. If there are no phosphates, put this saltwater into several different containers. In each of the containers (but only one per container), add a little of all of your supplements and food sources. Test for phosphates in each of the containers.

It's very possible that some of the phosphates ended up in the bacteria which inhabit your LR and sandbed. Now that you are starving them, they are dieing and releasing the phosphates back into the water column. Phosban and waterchanges will help greatly to remove it from the water column before new bacteria grab ahold of it.



I'll talk at you more later....gotta run to work.

[middletonmark]

Hmm ... I'd ponder the skimmer + flow too. I have a Remora Pro on my 58 and it does a decent job - but IMO seems almost underpowered on that sized tank.

How much skimmate do you get?
Can you run it `wetter'?

Export always helps - it won't solve the problem ... but IMO it's a good place to start.

--
I hate to suggest removing the DSB ... that said, I've seen tanks up about the length of yours that had DSB and major hair algae issues and wondered a bit about it myself. I can't help but think the nutrients are being trapped `somewhere' ... and the only other thing IMO is to follow curt's advice and figure out what you're adding in food and how that affects things [maybe lighten feeding a bit too] .... but without enough export to balance the import - that can be a problem.

What's your W/C schedule? Run any other filter-floss or sock? What other supplements do you add?

And add flow. I have a lot more in my tanks and it doesn't seem to adversely effect things ... It sounds like you're only around 10x tank turnover per hour - so it probably could have more added without a big problem IMO.

Hmm ... I'll be reading here when the local experts chime in ... they always have great advice.

[mojoreef]

Hey Chris no problemo, what you have is a beatable problem, so lets just go after it. We can all say its the dsb or the rock or the food or whatever but lets just find out exactly. Phosban is good but it will only help with PO4 that is in the water cloumn and hapens to pass through it slow enough. Rinsing your foods is ok but doesnt really do enough, you need to soak it in ro/di for an hour at least for it to pull the P out. then make sure you run the food and the water it is sitting in through a net, then just feed the stuff left, not the water.
Ok lets break it down, do a P test of the water in the sand bed about a 1/2 inch down in the sand, then do one right in the middle of the hair on the LR, then one on you ro/di top off water.
each of these tests will tell us what direction we need to pursue from thier.

give it a shot Chris

Mike

[Spooda420]

Mike, Sorry its been a long time between posts lost of stuff to do.

DSB .5 inch down .3
water colomn .3+
with in hair algae .3+

they all came out the same maybe the last two test are a tad bid darker, I used the Salifert test and tried to be as exact as possible.

I manually pulled the stuff out again today. But it will grow right back in less than two weeks.

I stirred up the sand bed (man some of that sand was as hard as concrete.)

did a 40% water change and did a good job blowing off the rocks and sucking up the HA.

Any other suggestions?

[mojoreef]

Chris with levels like that and in all areas, right now we need to get it out of the water column, from thier we can retest for source again. What kind of salt are you using?? for right now I would work with the phosphate remover, to try to rid the water of the p04. I would reduce the lighting slightly to only 7 hours on the MH, just as an added measure. The fact your sand has gone hard is telling a little bit also. this means that you dont have enough critter keeping it stired enough. once its hard it is pretty useless. So that will have to be address at some point no matter wat else we do.
The reason I asked about the salt is that alot of salts have P in it so when doing water changes it can be kinda redunant.

let me know

Mike

[Spooda420]

Mike,

I'm using IO. What about totally removing the DSB and from the display (keeping it in the sumps) and keep the LR in a tub of SW w/o lights for a week or so will that kill it of? or do more damage?

[dickie52]

I always like to add a few blueleg hermits, a couple of emerald crabs and a hungry lawnmower blenny or two.....

[Dingo]

What kind of herbivory do you have in the tank? IME, you will get a ton of algae even in pristine water in you don't have something to eat it. I would go with a jacked up cleaning crew before I tore down the tank.

[Spooda420]

1 lawnmower bleny
1 white urchin
1 yellow tang
100+red/blue legged hermits
25+ turbos
25+ aestra

next thing is some nudis maybe.

[mojoreef]

Sorry I missed your post Chris. Yea herbavoirs dont really export the problem though, they just eat it and poop out 90% back into the water.
Chris your plan is kinda the last resort, but if you feel you have hit that point i can under stand. Keeping the rock in the dark for awhile will cook it pretty good and get some of the detritus out of it. On the sand remval remember to just save the top inch, then wash out the balance. then put them in the sump in reverse order.

let me know what your plan is going to be and I will try to help. If I miss your post shoot me a pm.

Mike

[Witfull]

Originally posted by Spooda420
ACK! I am at wits end here guys...

warning,,,warning!! this is no mans land,,,,lol