Goniopora won't extend!

[KodiakBear]

I'm currently in a battle against a pretty bad brown algae bloom. Seems like I'm making progress on that after my 2nd 20% water change, with the help of about a dozen new hermit crabs (some scarlet, some blue-legged) and about 8 snails. My problem now is that I've realized that in over a week I haven't seen my Goniopora extended... Not even during feeding (DT Phyto). My other coral (Physogyra) seems to be doing fine. In the last 2 weeks, I've started my protein skimmer, added some charcoal filters, added the dozen hermits, and been turkey-basting the Heck out of the rocks trying to get the algae off of them so my filters can catch more of it. My Phosphates a still a little high; however, the nitrates and nitrites are at the same level they've been since I first got it about 5 months ago.
Does anyone know why it will not extend? Or what I can do to restore it to it's fully open nature?
This is a current picture of the coral in question.

[JFK_Jr]

Your picture wasn't showing up so I posted it for you.

My Phosphates a still a little high; however, the nitrates and nitrites are at the same level they've been since I first got it about 5 months ago.

Please post your water parameters for us and give us a history of your tank... seems strange that you would have these issues after having the tank up for 5 months.

Not even during feeding (DT Phyto)

I'd stop those feedings for now... and what fish do you keep in the tank?

[KodiakBear]

Thank you for fixing the picture, JFK. Sorry it didn't work for me.
As for my parameters:
Ph: 8.3
PO4: 0.15ppm (down from 0.3ppm 2 weeks ago)
NO2: 0
NO3: ~7ppm
Ca: 500
salinity: 32ppm (spec grav: 1.021)
Temp:79F

As for the history of the tank:
Got the tank a little over a year ago. it's a 45 gal with a 20 gal sump, slowly added about 50 lbs live rock over the first 5 months, added a "lawnmower" blenny and some hermit crabs, then some Yellow tailed damsels. about 6 months in added a Physogyra, cleaner shrimp, and banded coral shrimp. At 7 months added the Goniopora, and then a couple maroon clowns at about 8 months. With them came ich (killed both clowns within a couple days). I used Ruby Reef Kick-Ich treatment, and everything cleaned up really nice after about a month. Then I got deployed for about 3 months. I came back and brown algae had pretty much taken over my tank, started trying to fight that, and the Goniopora tucked into itself and hasn't extended for over a week now. It will let 3 or 4 shoots out at a time, but it hasn't been at its full glory. Considering what I've seen on this site about how quickly these things can die, I'm pretty much stopping my worries about the algae until this thing gets better.

[DeepBlue]

First off, welcome to RS! Great to have you here.

Goniopora are not tolerant of PO4 at any level. You need to do a water change to get that down to zero. They can tolerate small levels of NO3 and actually seem to do better with a little PO3.

I would also try to get your SG up to about 1.024 as that is more true to their natural environment. When you raise your SG, do it slowly so everything can adjust.

The Calcium should be more like 425 or so. Are you supplimenting with calcium? If you are, you may want to hold back just a bit.

[32Bit_Fish]

Salinity at 1.021 is low..

Here is a link to proper reef water parameters

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

Hope it helps

[KodiakBear]

DEEPBLUE: I use Carib-Sea's PURPLEUP to supplement my calcium and iodine. Saw a vast improvement in my shrimp and Physogyra when I started using it (before getting the Goniopora). I was aiming for a calcium of about 425, but screwed up my math. Added a little much (about 1/8 tsp made the difference). I also use Seachem's Prime to lower the nirtrates. As for my PO4... Still working on getting that down. I'm just worried about changing the water too often. I've done 2 20% changes about a week apart and cut the level in half already. I'm hesitant to change more than that at a time, and also worried about the frequency. I normally did 10% changes once/week and a 15% monthly.
PO3 I haven't tested for seperately, nor have I seen a test for it at my LFS. Can you tell me where to get a test for that?

32Bit: thank you for the link. That website is very imformative. Thus far I have been basing most of my chemistry on Water Chemistry for the Marine Aquarium by John H. Tullock published in 2002 by Barron's Educational. Your link goes into a lot more detail than the book. I'm going to try to get my Spec Grav up by adding my salt mix to the sump little by little. I haven't played through the math on how much salt yields in SG yet, so I guess I'm just going to add a tiny bit at a time and retest every couple hours. Thanks again.

[DeepBlue]

KodiakBear, it is ok to do more frequent water changes. It is removing the bad stuff and putting back fresh nutrients (i.e. Calcium, Iodine, etc.) for your reef so you won't have to suppliment as much. You won't do any damage to your reef by doing regular 20% water changes every week. I do a 25% every 2 weeks. This works well for me. Also, to help bring your calcium back down to your target level of 425, the water change will help that.

Also, you should stop using the Seachem Prime for now. Let your water changes take care of the problem of Nitrates.

Sorry, I meant to say NO3 in my original post, not PO3. Nitrates in small amounts are ok for goniopora. NH3 (Ammonia) is the worst thing for any corals or fish. Have you tested for that? I didn't see that in your test results. Phosphates (PO4)are not good for goniopora or your reef as that along with elevated levels above 5ppm of nitrate result in algae outbreaks.

[DeepBlue]

Originally Posted by KodiakBear

I'm going to try to get my Spec Grav up by adding my salt mix to the sump little by little. I haven't played through the math on how much salt yields in SG yet, so I guess I'm just going to add a tiny bit at a time and retest every couple hours. Thanks again.

Usually, 1/2 cup of salt mix per gallon gives you a 1.023 SG So, in your water changes, try to take the SG of the fresh water up to about 1.023 for the first 20% water change and then 1.025 for the second change and then use 1.025 SG for the rest of your water changes. This will be gradual enough.

[DeepBlue]

Sorry, I also forgot to ask, are you using RO/DI water or tap water? Using tap water is also a source of Nitrates and PO4.

[cheeks69]

Originally Posted by KodiakBear

I'm currently in a battle against a pretty bad brown algae bloom. Seems like I'm making progress on that after my 2nd 20% water change, with the help of about a dozen new hermit crabs (some scarlet, some blue-legged) and about 8 snails. My problem now is that I've realized that in over a week I haven't seen my Goniopora extended... Not even during feeding (DT Phyto). My other coral (Physogyra) seems to be doing fine. In the last 2 weeks, I've started my protein skimmer, added some charcoal filters, added the dozen hermits, and been turkey-basting the Heck out of the rocks trying to get the algae off of them so my filters can catch more of it. My Phosphates a still a little high; however, the nitrates and nitrites are at the same level they've been since I first got it about 5 months ago.
Does anyone know why it will not extend? Or what I can do to restore it to it's fully open nature?

These corals have a very poor track record in captivity and usually after 6 months begin to decline and die and the biggest problem is usually food or lack thereof. These corals don't eat phyto but primarily zooplankton. Two things that stand out that have been already been mentioned is your parameters are a bit off balance and your SG is too low for inverts. There have been some problems with the PURPLEUP supplement don't know if it's being overdosed or what but I would stop using it for at least a short period of time until your tank returns to balance. We need to know what your alkalinity level, it's quite possibly very low with your calcium that high. Here's some good info on Goniopora

[KodiakBear]

Alright, turned off my skimmer, and skipped last night's phyto feeding... Did a LOT more reading on goniopora, and discovered that I really shouldn't have started out with one of them. I think next time I'm going to read a lot before buying the pretty coral, regardless of how many the LFS has (at least 3 in each of his 8 coral tanks that are all gorgeous).
As for progress, the entire lower ring is dead, all the way around; however, the rest is about 50-75% extended now, and seemingly doing better. Not sure if this adds up to being good or bad. I suppose only time will tell. I added some OCEANIC NATURAL SEA SALT MIX and have my salinity up to 1.0225 (added slowly over about 18 hours). My calcium is down to about 475 (though my test is only accurate to +/- 50ppm), not really sure what drove it down so fast, so I'm keeping a close eye on that; and I'll be picking up an alk test tonight.
NH3 is about .15ppm right now, which I'm having trouble with since I haven't seen a spike in NH3 in over 4 months (about when I had a pair of clowns die). My Nitrates are holding steady at about 7, and nitrites are zero.
It being partially extended today is giving me some hope, but I'll be picking up some oyster eggs while at the LFS since several articles I found say that is a preferred food to phyto for these sensitive corals.
Thanks for all the suggestions, and links. I'll get a picture up as soon as I can. Oh yeah, I have an RO unit for the tank that comes from a well. Culligan tests it regularly and it's about as pure as you can get. None of my chem tests show anything in the water before I add to it.

[KodiakBear]

here are the pictures I took this afternoon.

[lcstorc]

Well it looks more open than the last pic. You must be doing something to make it less unhappy.

[marinelover]

These corals are the worst corals to ever be introduced to the trade!!!!! Because they are soooo beautiful but they are just intolerant of captive conditions! I have read many articles where the longest survival rate is like 12 - 16 months. Seems loke you are doing everything recommended for these bad boys. I say no one buy these that way shops and distributors won't carry them! These corals need to stay on the reefs where they CAN do well!
Shawn

We can make a difference just do not buy them and see if they carry them!

[billyr98]

Woodstock has had a goniopora for over 12 months.. I wish we knew her secret...