High Nitrate - Don't know cause

[djcmeeks]

I need some help. I've had my tank several years and have done pretty well with keeping my levels in balance. However, for the past month I can't seem to keep my nitrate levels down. Here is what I have, 72G Bowfront tank with Wet-dry (running bio-balls), skimmer, and roughly 40-50 lbs of live rock. I have a powercompact that I run 6hours of day and 8 hours of actinic along with an led moonlight. I only feed about twice a week (mysis shrimp) and try not to overfeed. I have been keeping phosguard in my system but doesn't seem to help. Temp now is at 77.5F. All other levels look good. I do have to but buffer in quite frequently to keep the PH up. I've done large water changes and while they help temporarily my levels are creeping back up between 25 to 50 on the nitrate scale since last week. My algae eaters inlcude, 20 or so hermits, a diamond goby, and a cole tang. I've had turbo snails but they seem to die within a month or two.
What do you think is the problem? I know I can use a 48 hour nitrate sponge but again, that might only temporarily releave the issue. My poor sebae is really taking a beating.

Any suggestions? (Sorry for the long thread)

[blue_eyes53813]

A few things you can check or think about ..

1. Any missing/dead livestock?
2. Think about the bio balls because they are a nitrate factor..over time will cause problems
3.add more liverock for filteration, ideal amount is 1lb-1.5 lbs per gallon of tank
4.Do you have sand or crushed coral for substrate?
5. How often are you doing water changes and do you clean the top service of substrate periodically ( dont stirr it though)
6. If you feed flakes and other foods that contain nitrates?
7. Might be time to do a thorough cleaning of equipment( skimmer etc)

Good luck

[djcmeeks]

1. The only thing might be some snails. I've tried to grab as many as I could find. But don't they produce ammonia when they die? My ammonia levels are good.
2. Bioballs might be the factor. I have had this system running for about 3.5 to 4 years.
4. I have crushed coral substrate, but don't vaccumm anymore becuase I have a diamond goby that seems to be very active. Should I still continue vaccumming occasionally?
7. Building a new house and just moved to a temporary residence almost 2 months ago. I cleaned system then. I do see particles in the base of my system. How often do you flush yours?

Thanks for the quick feedback!
Chris

[blue_eyes53813]

I would think about ditching the balls, but you have to do it slowly. Take a few out periodically, and the crushed coral is a big big big factor too.. The goby probably cant get down to the settled gunk. If you keep it , yes vaccuum it periodically but dont stir it all up,, You will cause a huge huge spike .. I TRY to clean mine about every month to 1 1/2 months..

EDIT- I try to clean equipment every month to 1 1/2 months

[lcstorc]

Bio-balls and crushed coral can both be nitrate factories, but ass blue eyes says if you remove them do it slowly.
The amonia released by rotting dead stuff is but the beginning of the cycle.
Amonia turns to nitrites which turn to nitrates. The bio-balls will leave it at nitrates (which is why we are recommending removal). Properly cycled live rock takes it a step further and changes the nitrates to a gas which is released in bubbles in the tank harmlessly.
I am left wondering why the problem now if the tank has been running this long. Has anything changed at all rececntly? New fish or other livestock, possible dead snails (but I would expect the amonia to spike first then the others), You mention a recent move. That could well have "stirred" things up and caused the spike. Keep up with the water changes and test the new water as well. I once had a problem where my water change water had nitrates so every change I did I was actually not helping much at all.
Just my 2c.

[blue_eyes53813]

Oh I missed the part about the move... did you stir up the crushed coral when you moved ? How did you move the tank? You may have a spike from stirring it up

[Melvyn Tan]

Invest in a good denitrator.

[djcmeeks]

When I moved my tank I drained and moved all the water in big rubbermaid trashcans. I did not remove the substrate, just the rock, fish, and inverts. I set the tank up, flushed the wet/dry with saltwater and put the water back into the tank, turned it on, added back the rock, fish, and inverts. The move was a short distance. About a 15 min trip. I had a powerhead running the whole time on the liverock.
I did have one singapore angel die recently. But before I saw he died, my porcupine puffer already ate him and there was nothing left but a skeleton. I do have snails die quite often. I add more to control algae, but then one or tow dies, the nitrates go up and they all die. It has become a vicious cycle.
I am going to do a thorough vaccum tonight. I think I'll take your suggestions and add more rock and start removing some bio-balls. I should be moving again into my new house the end of next month. I'm actually downgrading to a 46G bowfront reef tank. I would like to have this water problem corrected by then. I also think I want to do a sand substrate instead of the crushed coral next time. Any suggestions? Thanks again for all your input, this is great. My local aquarium store has helped a lot but its nice to get other feedback from experienced hobbyists.

[blue_eyes53813]

Good idea to switch to sand and remove the balls. Im wandering if your puffer isnt eating the snails? and also snails are not tolerant of nitrates( as you are finding out.... Fix the nitrate problem first and than add more livestock or like you said , it is a vicious circle.

Puffers are also very very messy eaters..They chew and spit..
Add more live rock, get rid of the balls and get sand and see if that helps.
What other livestock do you have in the tank? I also run carbon about 2 weeks per month... Might help you if you dont use it already. Good luck

[Woodstock]

The snails are probably dying due to the high (toxic) nitrAtes. I do feel that the bioballs are adding to your dilema but you also need more rock. You should have 1 - 1.5 lbs rock per gallon of water. The deep pores of the rock (and a fine sand bed) allow for aenerobic bacteria to complete the nitrogen cycle (nitrAtes are converted to harmless nitrogen gas bubbles). You do not mention your total fish bioload. You only mentioned your 'algae eaters'....

• What fish do you have in the tank and how large are they? The recommended stocking rate is 1" of adult fish per 5 gallons of water. Any amount over this will require more frequent/larger water changes.
• What type of substrate do you have? How deep is it? Crushed coral traps ditritus which rots and adds to the nitrAte levels quickly. A fine grained aragonite sand is best.... I have a 3" sugar grain sand bed that is awesome at lowering nitrAte levels to zero and I feed a LOT several times daily.
• Do you have any sponges or other filter media? If so, you should clean them every 2-3 days.. again trapping ditritus is bad, bad.. you have to EXPORT the nutrients!
• Do you have a skimmer? What brand is it?

[blue_eyes53813]

lol musta been reading each others mind Woodstock.. lol

[Woodstock]

LOL! I see that

[djcmeeks]

My substrate is larger crushed aragonite, looks like small gravel... sorry I kept saying crushed coral earlier. It's about 2.5" thick. I don't have any sponges. I do keep phosguard in the system. I have a filter pad on the overflow box and a pad above the bioballs. I rinse them at least once a week. My wet/dry system is very similar to the ProClear Aquatics 75G system. It has a built-in venturi Protein Skimmer with a RIO 600 pump to run the skimmer.
As for fish. I have a Maroon Clown - about 3", The porcupine puffer about 4", a Cole Tang about 4+", a Yellow Tang about 2.5", diomand goby 3.5", and my sebae anemone, that's it.

[Woodstock]

Replacing the crushed coral with fine sand will most definately help keep the nitrates down! I also recommend upgrading your skimmer .... maybe to an Aqua C Remora Pro hangon. I have 2 and love them!

[lcstorc]

If you remove the crushed coral (and I agree that it should go) do so slowly like the bio-balls. Removing too much at once could cause a spike. I have often heard said that only bad things happen quickly in reefs and believe it to be true. Take your time and remove a bit at a time and do a water change after each removal. At least that is what I would do.
Most importantly, keep an eye on your parameters. They will show you what is happening with the cycle of the tank.