Newbie to SW

[Something Fishy]

First off I want to say very nice site. I have been searching the net for salt water forums and yours seems the most friendly and helpful.

I will start off and tell you about the two tanks I have started.

The first tank: 55 gallon filled with dry reef rock. 1 bag of coral gravel, 1 bag of crushed coral, 1 bag of live sand. 2 60 gallon over the back filters, Sea Clone 100 protein skimmer, 2 200 watt heaters.

The second tank: 20 gallon. Gravel with under gravel filter. Plastic plants, 150 watt heater, 40 gallon over the back. ( Just converted from freshwater Saturday)

Here is our problem. Well there are a couple so this could get long. We started our first tank on 1-2-04 the 55 gallon. After some varing opinions we decided to put some damsels in Sat. afternoon. Tank temp was about 79 degrees so I adjusted them a little. I guess I adjusted too much and tank temp droped over night to about 72. 1 fish was already dead and 2 more died. I thought maybe it was because of the temp drop. But alas as most of you already know it was because of ammonia.

Before anyone jumps down my throat ( this happened on another site I posted on) we realize our mistake and aren't going to make it again.

We were told buy the local Pet Warehouse we could start adding fish if we put in live sand. We were also told buy the fish shop that we would be ok to add fish. So we did and alas we can't.

We are going to leave the 55 gallon as a fish only tank for now. We don't want to attempt live rock in such a large tank. We are going to however use the smaller tank for live rock. This was if I do the same thing to it we won't lose as much money in killing live rock.

There is the situation. Since there is still one fish left in the 55 gallon he looks ok and is swimming around a little. I guess he will help start the cycle. What is a better way to start the cycle in the 20 gallon? We have read about the dead shrimp method, wife doesn't really want to look at a dead shirmp lounging on the bottom of the tank for a month. If there something else we can do help it along?

On the 20 gallon is gravel ok? Or should we add a layer of sand? Shoudl we use powerheads on the under gravel filter instead of the air bubbles?

Thanks for any help. I hope I wasn't too long winded.

Thanks again,
Rusty & Amanda

[Witfull]

Hi

[Witfull]

now that the welcome is covered...as for the 55 let it run as it is, it will cycle on its own as it is with one fish. keep an eye on the parameters and when the ammonia and nitrites spike and fall, it has passed the first hurdle.
as for the 20...you wont kill live rock and it will help speed up the cycle. but first i would strongly suggest removing the UG filter. this will become more of a problem than help. also remove the plastic plants. if they are not SW safe they could release harmful toxins into the water. as for the cycle,,,dry fish food will do the same thing, feed a pinch every day and it will cycle...decomposing stuff is decomposing stuff.
last but not least i would suggest finding a more reputable store, they seem to be more interested in sales than your success.
what do you dream of keeping? this is good to get into your mind. where do you want to be and we can help you get there. and help you not spend money twice on low quality or non required equipment.

[ReefLady]

Welcome! Glad you found us.

I think I can pretty much assure you that nobody here is going to jump down your throat. Especially since you seem willing to ask questions and learn.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your fish! Their deaths could have caused by the cycle, and may have been in part by the quick temp drop. If they were already stressed by ammonia levels, it might not take more than a gentle 'nudge' to push them over the proverbial "edge".

As far as cycling the 20g, you can use uncured LR, live sand, or the "shrimp method". As far as I know, the shrimp doesn't need to be left in the tank for a month - only long enough to begin to "rot" and start the cycle.

The gravel is okay - the trend lately has been to steer away from sand beds, and go back to a shallow crushed coral substrate, or a bare bottom. Just understand that you'll need to vaccuum the detritus out of the gravel often to keep it from accumulating. Unfortunately, and undergravel filter is not really the best choice, so you might want to think of ditching that altogether.

I'm sure lots of ppl here will offer a lot of advice, and it may get overwhelming. Just take it slow -- if you can, purchase a good book such as "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner, or "Natural Reef Aquariums" by Tullock.

And feel free to ask as many questions as you have here!

Welcome to the Sanctuary.

[ReefLady]

Here's one good place to start ~

>Starting, restarting or moving it's all here<

HTH,

[Something Fishy]

We have a pretty good idea of what we want out of the 55 gallon. I would love to have a couple of clown fish ( not sure of the variety ), of course an animity( that isn't spelled right), prehaps some crabs, and a couple of gobys.

The 20 gallon is up in the air. We know we want to wait and do live rock in it. Fear is getting the best of us right now. 4 - 5 a pound for live rock hits the checkbook hard. So 30-40 lbs is easier than 75-100 for the 55 gallon.

We will pull the plants and the under gravel filter on the little tank.

Thanks for the kind words and the help.

Still reading,
Rusty & Amanda

Also do you have to have LR to have aninamies? That still isn't spelled right.

Edit: You spell it anemones.

[Something Fishy]

Also one other question. The reason for the two over the backs I read on some pages that they are bad, I read on others they are good. Eveyone has varing opinons. Who is right? Are we wrong? Are these filters going to kill everything? I am finding this hobby is full opinions and no "right" answer. Is this a correct thought?

Thanks again,
Rusty & Amanda

[ReefLady]

I would love to have a couple of clown fish ( not sure of the variety ), of course an animity( that isn't spelled right), prehaps some crabs, and a couple of gobys.

Just do tons of research before you make any fish/invertebrate purchases. Anemones, though beautiful, are often extremely difficult to care for, and require very bright (very expensive) lighting systems. If that's what you want to aim for, cool - just be prepared.

Crabs, well .... many of us don't like crabs. ;-) Lots of ppl keep them in a reef system, but they can become predatory. There are certain types that are better than others.

Fear is getting the best of us right now. 4 - 5 a pound for live rock hits the checkbook hard. So 30-40 lbs is easier than 75-100 for the 55 gallon.

Sure does, as do most things in this hobby - you'll find. :-) LR is actually one of the better investments -- not only does it look nice, but it serves as a tank "filtration" system also. Do some searching online, there are some decent deals out there for LR (yes, even including shipping costs). Especially if you're willing to have it drop-shipped, and pick it up at a local airport.

Also do you have to have LR to have aninamies? That still isn't spelled right.

As there are many different kinds of fish, there are many different species of anemones. While some like to bury their "foot" in the sand, others like a rock base. Again, these aren't creatures usually recommended for a "beginner". They can be finicky, and more often than not require tons of light. Remember to also research clown-anemone relationships -- not all anemones will host clowns, and even ones that do will host only certain species of clowns, while other anemones will host others. There are "better" choices out there if you have your heart set on an anemone, but I'd still give your system a few months to settle and mature, and give yourself time to do some research.

[ReefLady]

Oh - just a thought about the LR. See if you can find a place to get some dead/"base" coral rock -- usually much cheaper than LR - sometimes around $1.00/lb.

While you will still need some LR, you can usually do about 40% "live", and 60% "base"/dead -- the ugly dead white base rock will turn coraline encrusted and "live" in just a matter of a few months.

http://www.hirocks.com is one MO vendor that sells base rock.

[ReefLady]

Also one other question. The reason for the two over the backs I read on some pages that they are bad, I read on others they are good. Eveyone has varing opinons. Who is right? Are we wrong? Are these filters going to kill everything? I am finding this hobby is full opinions and no "right" answer. Is this a correct thought?

There is absolutely no one right way to do things. You'll find 50 different tanks here set up 50 different ways. There are very few "absolutes" in this hobby, though there are some choices that are recommended, while others will get you complete silence. ;-)

The filters won't kill anything, but they're probably not the overwhelmingly popular choice. You'll hear repeated over and over that the "best" bet in SW is LR, and the best protein skimmer you can afford. That is usually suggested for a reef tank.

Now, for a FO tank which might not have LR, I'm really not familiar with the filtration choices. Hopefully someone else will jump in & help you out with that.

[Something Fishy]

The rock that we now have in the 55 gal has the base coral, they called it dry reef rock at the shop where we got it. It was 1.50 a pound.

So if we put live rock in with the base it will "move" over to the base?

As far as what to put in the tank. We haven't sat down and read a book or looked for all the different fish you can have. Those are just what we are seen in the shops and the clowns look VERY neat with their anemones. I guess that is where I fell in love with them. The two shops here in town that we have been to are willing to part with the anemone and clown fish.

We still have alot to learn and even more to research before we buy any more fish.

Thanks for all you help.

Rusty & Amanda

[mnreefman]

yes if you put a couple lbs of good live rock in your tank it will seed you base rock and then that will become live rock...
as far as the clownfish go.. go out and buy the book clownfish by joyce wilkerson... it is imo the best book on a single species you can buy... please wait until your tank is very mature if you want an anemone. also what type of lighting do you have, most anemones NEED alot of light, vho or metal halide is preferd...
WELCOME TO REEFSANCTUARY

[Something Fishy]

Oh I forgot about lighting. I know for certain we will need different lighting for soft coral, but right now we have 50/50 lights. 50% actinic blue 50% natural.

Can we run two strips of lights? One set for the coral and the other 50/50. I really like the color of the 50/50 oppsed to the standard lights.

[ReefLady]

Can we run two strips of lights? One set for the coral and the other 50/50. I really like the color of the 50/50 oppsed to the standard lights.

Sure can -- on our old 75g, we had 4 VHO's - 2 x 50/50's, and 2 x Actinics.

What kind of lights do you have? Normal flourescent tubes -- VHO's? -- Power compact?

[Something Fishy]

Normal flourescent tubes. What are VHO's and power compacts?