**~~TOTW- Water Circulation~~**

[TDEVIL]

what is the going opinion on Eductor's, they are easy to make and could more than double the output of your pump

besides what they look like, i know that they dont work as well with lowpressure pumps compared to the highpressure pumps

plus they can be used on the feed pump for your skimmers, which would help in that area also

and if you are working with a small area in your sump (for example) lets say that you need a mag10 (or the like) but dont have the room for it but you can fit a slightly smaller pump in there, with an eductor you can increase the flow of the smaller pump, the same could apply to closed loops

what do you guys/gals think

TD

[SunnyX]

I dont think I have enough flow in my tank... I have
4 Aquaclear 402's and Mag 3 for my skimmer.
What do you guys think?

[fidojoe]

For a closed loop, what do you use for the pump? I'm thinking about using one, but unsure of what type of pump. I like the design with the 2 outputs on either side on the sqwd. I don't want to spend tons of $$ for a pump, and I only need something about 500 gph. Right now, I have a fluval no media @ 340 gph, skimmer @ 200 gph, AC 3000 PH @ ~290 gph, AC 201 and 301 @ 125 gph and 175 gph. The fluval would be removed and replaced by the CL.

[Maxx]

T devil,
Here is a link on eductors @ RC. I had a search w/ a bunch of links set up on many threads on RC concerning eductors, but they update and move things around quite frequently. So the best thinfg I can do is tell you to read that thread and then do a search on RC and check out the results.

if you are working with a small area in your sump (for example) lets say that you need a mag10 (or the like) but dont have the room for it but you can fit a slightly smaller pump in there, with an eductor you can increase the flow of the smaller pump

Yes this is true, just remember that it wont effect a pumps ability to overcome head pressure. So if your tank needs a mag 10 to pump the water up high enough, (hypothetical set up w/ sump in basement...) to reach the main tank, but your sump will only let you fit a Mag 7 in there...an eductor wont help you. I'm sure you already knew that, just clarifying. From what I've been able to piece together, eductors are great on longer tanks, but on a shorter tank such as my 58 (36Lx18Wx21H) they're overkill.

For a closed loop, what do you use for the pump? I'm thinking about using one, but unsure of what type of pump. I like the design with the 2 outputs on either side on the sqwd. I don't want to spend tons of $$ for a pump, and I only need something about 500 gph.

Go w/ a mag 5 or a mag 7. I just got a mag 7 from custom aquatic for $57.99 US. Its rated @ 675 gph @ 1 foot of head, and 400 gph @ 6 feet of head.
Nick

[Maxx]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/search...by=&sortorder=
link to eductors search on RC...Lord only knows how long the link will be valid...
Nick

[Craig Manoukian]

So Maxx,

A Mag 7 should handle a 60" head in return flow back to the display tank from the sump, yes? What return gph would I expect at those specs for this pump?

I am planning a gravity feed to the sump and will use a 1" OD braided plastic tube with a gate valve to match the return volume.

Comments?

[Maxx]

A Mag 7 should handle a 60" head in return flow back to the display tank from the sump, yes? What return gph would I expect at those specs for this pump?

My info was from the 2003 custom aquatic catalog. Based on their info, I would say yes a mag 7 should handle that...I will be upset if it doesnt since thats what I'm using for my sump return and thats about the height its got to handle. As far as GPH @ hte return...I dont have the math in front of me...but can find it somewhere...you will lose pressure at each 90 degree bend in the return. if this is strictly a straight shot w/ no 90's I would estimate approx 535 gph...( difference between 675 @ 1 foot and 400 @ 6 feet = 175 @ 5 feet. Dividing 175 by 5 = 35. So approximately 35 GPH lost per foot of vertical travel. 35 multiplied by 4 = 140. Use 4 since part of the original equation is set for 1 foot...4+1 = 5 for 5 feet of head. 675-140 = 535.)
This is really only a guesstimation since this doesnt take into account friction loses and pressure losses due to 90 degree bends. Best way to test this that I can think of would be to take your plumbing set up and hook it up to two containers. One holding a large amount of water, and a similar sized container empty. Start the pump and time it for 60 seconds. At the end of 60 seconds, measure the amount of water in the previously empty container, (or in the previously full container...whichever is easier) and multiply that by 60. That should get you GPH....
I wish I knew the mathmatical way to calculate the flow rate w/o doing all that, but I dont....sorry.
Nick

[Maxx]

here is the link to the head loss calculator @ RC. If you fill out the appropriate info, you should get a correct answer...http://reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

I am planning a gravity feed to the sump and will use a 1" OD braided plastic tube with a gate valve to match the return volume.

The Mag 7 has 1/2 inch inlet/outlet ports...thats one of the reasons I bought it...going w/ a 1/2 inch Sea Swirl....
usually one inch OD tubing has an ID of 5/8ths. The closest your gonna get on Mag pumps is 3/4 so you'll need an adapter.
The smallest Mag pump w/ 3/4 is the 9.5 which is rated @ 950 GPH @ 1 foot,and 720 @ 6 feet....
Also keep in mind that you will get algae growth in clear tubing. This will slow down return flow due to friction. I would go w/ spa flex, (flexible PVC) light tight....
Nick

[Craig Manoukian]

Thanks Maxx,

I was going to use the clear flex tube to eliminate a direct 90 and have the water go through a gentle curve if you will, less friction hopefully. Will change to the flexible PVC to avoid algae though.

Will definitely test the GPH using the method you suggested and will control the siphon flow with a ball valve to match the return.

Again, great link, thanks!

[Craig Manoukian]

It says my total loss of head pressure will be 60 ft. assuming a .75 inch inside diameter for my flexible PVC.

Here's the link, what did I goof?

http://reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php...=1&Entrances=1

[wooddood]

in the pics above on marcs closed loop he's running a mag 5 i beleive.

[EdgeKrusher]

Cool thread. All I have is one MiniJet 606 in my nano. What kind of pump would I want to go with if I decided to make a closed loop? I want to avoid Rio pumps if possible.

EK

[cward43062]

I ran into a problem with micro bubbles with my closed loop, so I increased the intake pipe size to 1 1/2" which cured the problem. Also, I had to keep the strainer 5" below the water surface so it wouldn't create a vortex and suck air from the water surface.

I am using a little giant 4-mdq-xc for the closed loop pump.

[Maxx]

It says my total loss of head pressure will be 60 ft. assuming a .75 inch inside diameter for my flexible PVC

Okay,
Maybe its cause I havent had any coffee yet, but I don't understand what that answer means....If I'm reading this correctly, its saying that your Mag-7 wont work for this application. This is because the Mag-7 doesnt provide enough pressure to handle a 60 foot verticle climb. Is this what you were trying to enter? Does the tank have to be on the 4th floor of your mansion?
Typically theres something like what 10 feet between floors, (Wood you're the home builder you tell me), you would need a bigger pump in order to get water up a 60 foot verticle rise.

What kind of pump would I want to go with if I decided to make a closed loop? I want to avoid Rio pumps if possible.

EK,
That depends on how much flow you want and how big your tank is....
just to put things in perspective, What size is your tank Cward?

[mojoreef]

Here is a really good head and general plumbing program it includes a lot of different pumps and so on. Its an excell program so just down load it and run it on excel.

http://www.reefs.org/library/pumps/waterpipe-v1.xls

On the eductors they are awesome I have five on my tank and the flow from them is great, man it creates a small tsunami in mine. On that link to RCis thier the DIY eductors on thier, if not let me know and I will find a link.

Mike