The "Necessity" of a protein skimmer - Page 2

jesse92 · 09-26-2009, 06:43 AM

i run my tank without a protein skimmer. im trying to have as natural a setup as possible, so i replaced my skimmer with an algae turf scrubber. i also have lots of live rock and a deep sand bed in both my DT and its sump... very interesting that ur tank is running great, possibly better without a skimmer.

Jeremy0322 · 09-26-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiers007

Jeremy, I agree with what you are saying in principal, but calling the "foam" that is sometimes produced on beaches the oceans skimmer and justifying this with the fact that there are miles of coastline is simply inaccurate. Yes the foam that get produced on beaches is organic material and is created by the same principal our skimmers work on, but the Ocean would not be effected whatsoever if that foaming action never occured.

It is simply a matter of water volume. Because all of the oceans are connected, they can be viewed as one extremely large tank(obviously a simplified model). If you then consider the total biomass in the ocean and compare this to the total water volume of the ocean you will see that this number is dramatically smaller than it is in even the largest of reef tanks. So basically what I am saying is that the "bio-load" of the ocean is very low when compared to a reef tank. Additionally in areas of high organism density, such as coral reefs, the amount of "live rock" is also substantially greater than it would be in a reef tank. There is also much more diversity of life in the ocean than we can keep alive in our tanks which help with nutrients.

Now, am I saying that because our reef tanks have such high bioloads comapred to the ocean that everyone should run a skimmer, No. All I am trying to point out is that we are trying to recreate this enormous ecosystem in our homes and in most cases this requires a helping hand from technology. Ok, thats enough rambling from me. To skim or not to skim, that is the question!

This is all very true, you wont hear an argument from me. The only thing I was trying to point out was that its the same concept, some people view skimmers as some technology that just isnt needed because if the ocean doesnt have it then why do they, so they justify the money saved with that rational and end up getting burnt.

Yea, the bio load is HUGE in these tanks compared to the ocean, but the amount of foam that most skimmers make in comparison to the water volume in a reef tank is also gigantic in comparison to the foam on beached in relation to the water volume in the ocean, so they do tend to compensate for eachother in one way.

squiers007 · 09-26-2009, 08:40 PM

I couldnt have said it better myself!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy0322

This is all very true, you wont hear an argument from me. The only thing I was trying to point out was that its the same concept, some people view skimmers as some technology that just isnt needed because if the ocean doesnt have it then why do they, so they justify the money saved with that rational and end up getting burnt.

Yea, the bio load is HUGE in these tanks compared to the ocean, but the amount of foam that most skimmers make in comparison to the water volume in a reef tank is also gigantic in comparison to the foam on beached in relation to the water volume in the ocean, so they do tend to compensate for eachother in one way.

Jeremy0322 · 09-28-2009, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiers007

I couldnt have said it better myself!

And what is your profile picture of if you dont mind me asking?

BigAl07 · 09-28-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy0322

This is all very true, you wont hear an argument from me. The only thing I was trying to point out was that its the same concept, some people view skimmers as some technology that just isnt needed because if the ocean doesnt have it then why do they, so they justify the money saved with that rational and end up getting burnt.

Yea, the bio load is HUGE in these tanks compared to the ocean, but the amount of foam that most skimmers make in comparison to the water volume in a reef tank is also gigantic in comparison to the foam on beached in relation to the water volume in the ocean, so they do tend to compensate for each other in one way.

Again VERY well worded

squiers007 · 09-28-2009, 10:17 AM

That is an electron micrograph of a nematocyst.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy0322

And what is your profile picture of if you dont mind me asking?

Jeremy0322 · 09-28-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiers007

That is an electron micrograph of a nematocyst.

I am actually somewhat proud of myself, I actually knew what that was. We just learned about that stuff in class recently.

squiers007 · 10-09-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy0322

I am actually somewhat proud of myself, I actually knew what that was. We just learned about that stuff in class recently.

Thats cool man. How many years do you have left? Are you thinking about graduate school? Do you have any research interests?

Jeremy0322 · 10-21-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiers007

Thats cool man. How many years do you have left? Are you thinking about graduate school? Do you have any research interests?

Wow, this took me a while to respond to, for some reason it didnt tell me that anyone had posted on this thread, so thats weird. Right now I think I have 2 and a half years including this current semester, and after that I am not sure yet. Im still trying to get a feel for what I actually want to do with the degree really, I enjoy it all so getting everything narrowed down has proven to be difficult.

squiers007 · 10-21-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy0322

Wow, this took me a while to respond to, for some reason it didnt tell me that anyone had posted on this thread, so thats weird. Right now I think I have 2 and a half years including this current semester, and after that I am not sure yet. Im still trying to get a feel for what I actually want to do with the degree really, I enjoy it all so getting everything narrowed down has proven to be difficult.

No worries. I hear you on not knowing what you want to do with the degree. It took me a while to figure out that I wanted to go to graduate school, and I'm still not 100% certain where I would like to go from here. Just keep yourself open to opportunities and something fun will come around.

sjsoto · 11-01-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiers007

To skim or not to skim, that is the question!

my answer is skim,

Clownfish518 · 11-01-2009, 12:43 PM

There is nothing natural about a reef tank. We don't use natural seawater, we don't use natural lighting, we don't have natural food sources, we don't have a natural mix of corals and fishes. So why do so many people want to avoid skimmers as they are unnatural? And why do people try to defend skimmers by saying they are natural?

I tend toward more natural systems, as in my experience they are less prone to failures, but if there is a good piece of technology like an vortech I embrace it wholeheartedly. Its not about what I want or prefer, its about what is best for my corals and fishes. The question should not be whether we skim or not, but whether the animals are better off with skimmers or not.

Within our skill and budget we should do what is best for the tank, and that should be the main consideration when making the decision to skim or not to skim

sjsoto · 11-01-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clownfish518

There is nothing natural about a reef tank. We don't use natural seawater, we don't use natural lighting, we don't have natural food sources, we don't have a natural mix of corals and fishes. So why do so many people want to avoid skimmers as they are unnatural? And why do people try to defend skimmers by saying they are natural?

lol...lol...thats so true..

l3fty999 · 11-01-2009, 03:45 PM

The actual reason I don't currently run a skimmer is simple: my 125 gallon tank is sparsely populated at the moment. All I have is a clam, fire shrimp, yellow watchman goby, some softies, an open brain, and a candycane coral. I do test on a regular basis, and I just don't see anything harmful building up. At this point, the only filtration I have is just the live rock with some caulerpa and cheato in the fuge. When I add more to my tank, I still have the skimmer when it's needed.

Aaron

ARA · 11-02-2009, 09:37 AM

Very interesting, thread, I love these "to skim or not to skim" threads, there have been many over the years, on different forums.

Many good points have been made here.
I run 12 separate systems for Atlantic Reef Aquaculture: Atlantic Reef Aquaculture - Sugarloaf Key Florida
All of them have extreme /over-the top sized skimmers.
we are mainly propagating SPS corals, and everything is growing like crazy.
I also run 5 personal systems, three with, and two without skimmers.
All 17 systems do great, I just make sure to respect bio-loads, (very few fish, lighter feedings) in the skimmer-less tanks.

Point: My best SPS growth is in one of the skimmer-less tanks with 10,000K MH lighting only???... most likely just a coincidence

09-26-2009, 06:43 AM	#16 (permalink)
jesse92 Tubeworm Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 25 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: The "Necessity" of a protein skimmer i run my tank without a protein skimmer. im trying to have as natural a setup as possible, so i replaced my skimmer with an algae turf scrubber. i also have lots of live rock and a deep sand bed in both my DT and its sump... very interesting that ur tank is running great, possibly better without a skimmer.

11-01-2009, 12:43 PM	#27 (permalink)
Clownfish518 Razorback Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Bentonville, Arkansas Posts: 1,548 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: The "Necessity" of a protein skimmer There is nothing natural about a reef tank. We don't use natural seawater, we don't use natural lighting, we don't have natural food sources, we don't have a natural mix of corals and fishes. So why do so many people want to avoid skimmers as they are unnatural? And why do people try to defend skimmers by saying they are natural? I tend toward more natural systems, as in my experience they are less prone to failures, but if there is a good piece of technology like an vortech I embrace it wholeheartedly. Its not about what I want or prefer, its about what is best for my corals and fishes. The question should not be whether we skim or not, but whether the animals are better off with skimmers or not. Within our skill and budget we should do what is best for the tank, and that should be the main consideration when making the decision to skim or not to skim __________________ Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem - William of Ockham

11-01-2009, 03:45 PM	#29 (permalink)
l3fty999 Pistol Shrimp Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 265 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: The "Necessity" of a protein skimmer The actual reason I don't currently run a skimmer is simple: my 125 gallon tank is sparsely populated at the moment. All I have is a clam, fire shrimp, yellow watchman goby, some softies, an open brain, and a candycane coral. I do test on a regular basis, and I just don't see anything harmful building up. At this point, the only filtration I have is just the live rock with some caulerpa and cheato in the fuge. When I add more to my tank, I still have the skimmer when it's needed. Aaron

11-02-2009, 09:37 AM	#30 (permalink)
ARA Tunicate Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 24 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: The "Necessity" of a protein skimmer Very interesting, thread, I love these "to skim or not to skim" threads, there have been many over the years, on different forums. Many good points have been made here. I run 12 separate systems for Atlantic Reef Aquaculture: Atlantic Reef Aquaculture - Sugarloaf Key Florida All of them have extreme /over-the top sized skimmers. we are mainly propagating SPS corals, and everything is growing like crazy. I also run 5 personal systems, three with, and two without skimmers. All 17 systems do great, I just make sure to respect bio-loads, (very few fish, lighter feedings) in the skimmer-less tanks. Point: My best SPS growth is in one of the skimmer-less tanks with 10,000K MH lighting only???... most likely just a coincidence __________________ www.atlanticreef.com

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