Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons?

DAHansen · 06-23-2008, 12:54 AM

After reading the article on ReefKeeping.com on "Reef Alchemy with Randy Holmes-Farley" I got to thinking. Yes, a dangerous past time, I know.

I live pretty close to the ocean here in Southern Massachusetts, and I have pretty easy access to Cape Cod Bay and Nantucket Sound/Buzzards Bay. For the past couple years that I've been "Reefing" I've used almost exclusively "Real Ocean" boxed saltwater for water changes. Now, I know that it would be cheaper in the long run to hook up an RODI system and mix my own water. This is something that I fully plan to do once we move out of our condo and into an actual house - where I will have the space and availability to set up a large(r) tank between 90 and 200 gallons.

In the article, it mentions that natural sea water has quite low concentrations of most of the bad stuff - phosphates, nitrates, etc. - and that's when I got to thinking (stand back!) that maybe I could just use natural sea water for water changes. I would make back the cost of a couple buckets on the first trip - plus I like going to the ocean anyway.

If I lived in the Bahamas/Virgin Islands/Florida Keys I wouldn't think twice about grabbing a bucket-full of Atlantic and putting it in my aquarium. However, I live just a bit south of Boston, Massachusetts - where you can't swim in the city's main river most of the time because of pollution. This means I need to figure out what to test for, and HOW to test for it before I can use the "free" water.

I'm guessing my biggest concern would be fertilizer (nitrates/nitrogen) and "organics" from run-off near the more highly-populated and well-manicured neighborhoods.

I may set up a small, 10-gallon test tank and just give it a go with some live rock - I try not to risk too many critters' lives if I can help it. I can let it run for a few months (6-8) with regular water changes and testing and see where it goes before mixing it in to the main display.

If you have any thoughts or advice, I would love to hear it.

Thank you,
David

vdituri · 06-23-2008, 01:01 AM

Unfortunately, there may be more in the water than you can test for.
If your natural saltwater had diesel or gasoline in it there is no test that would warn you.
Ammonia, nitriite, nitrate, or phosphates, it would be a different story.

It's a roll of the dice. Feel lucky? lol

Frankie · 06-23-2008, 01:04 AM

Funny that, I brought home water from the beach today and it tested out with the test i have perfectly. Everything was right, SG refractometer 35, PH 8.12, nitrates 0, ca++ 420, po4 0, MG was low not sure my test is working or good. I am going to collect some again and mail it into one of those labs for a more accurate test on everything and post my findings. But, I am a long way off from changing my tank water with it.

Frankie · 06-23-2008, 01:08 AM

OMG, diesel or gasoline, I' not even going to bother. Just thinking about it creeps me now. Thanks Vic, You ruined it for me

vdituri · 06-23-2008, 01:11 AM

I AM THE VOICE OF DOOM!!!!
DOOM!
DOOM!

lol. I'm just saying. There are more things in the water than we can possibly test for.

SubRosa · 06-23-2008, 05:02 PM

More of a problem with NSW is potential die-off of plankton.Try a little experiment.Take a clean white bucket and fill it with NSW.Cover it and wait a few days then check out the crud on the bottom.Then test your ammonia!If you ran the water through a micron filter and then carbon you could probably avoid these problems, but I guess it's a question of what's your time worth.

John

glampka · 06-23-2008, 05:23 PM

If you were to use NSW the best thing to do is to collect it from a few miles off shore since most of the pollution ends up along the shoreline.

ThePuffLife · 06-23-2008, 06:28 PM

Cons- The water is EXTREMLY dirty... wat with toddlers who have no bladder control swimming in it, uneaten food, etc.
Pros- Well, i cant think of any...

funkpolice · 06-23-2008, 08:41 PM

I don't think it's a good idea to put in the reef, but it might be different to start an "industrial run off" specific tank. You would have to buy a petroleum test kit, and dose when necessary.
bill

reefsurf · 06-23-2008, 08:45 PM

hmmm i fish offshore during the summer months here in sd and south into mexico. i've thought about taking a couple 5 gal. containers out and collecting water. not sure though that the gains outweigh the risks.

mps9506 · 06-23-2008, 09:01 PM

You guys near the ocean may want to see if any universities near you have aquaculture programs that pump in NSW. I'm lucky enough to have one that pumps in NSW that is used for all kinds of aquaculture uses from breeding flounder and grouper to oysters and copepods.
they allow the general public to use the water as well, we get a choice of raw unfiltered NSW or water that has gone through ozone, UV, and a couple of huge sand filters. I generally use the filtered for my tanks, but have thought about setting up a tank using the raw, but with all the sewage spills in our area over the last few years...
Anyhow if the university can raise inverts and fish in this water I figured I can keep my reef tank going in it. Saved a bunch on salt over the years, but still go through the RO/DI filters for top offs.

DAHansen · 06-28-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkpolice

You would have to buy a petroleum test kit, and dose when necessary.
bill

HA!

MPS - That is AWESOME! And No, none of the universities around here would be willing to do that - at least none close enough to make it worth while.

mps9506 · 06-29-2008, 05:23 PM

It is helpful for sure. Helps cut some of the costs on maintaining the tank since I don't have to order nearly as much salt mix. I still keep it on hand, but just don't use much.
That said it is a lot of working lugging the buckets of water in and out of my car. One of the other local guys uses it for his 180 and frag tanks. He loads the back of his truck up with big rain barrels to transport 100-200 gallons at a time.

JT101 · 07-03-2008, 03:17 PM

I did it from June 2007 until December 2007. The reason I stopped was because I realized that in the winter around here winter = snow, snow = road ice, road ice= road salt, road salt = dangerous coastal runoff.

I have VERY easy access to clean OCEAN water (Jones Inlet) but I got nervous so I stopped.

I got a RO/DI system from Jack and I'm not at all sorry I went the RO/DI way.

I never realized how incredibly convenient it is to have pure RO/DI water virtually on demand.

Wolfgang8810 · 07-08-2008, 02:48 AM

I have collected NSW before but i got it 5 miles off shore and 10 ft below the surface. it worked great but gas prices went up and that made buying SW form the LFS more economical.

06-23-2008, 12:54 AM	#1 (permalink)
DAHansen Sea Pen Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Abington, MA Posts: 301 View Gallery Karma Komment	Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons? After reading the article on ReefKeeping.com on "Reef Alchemy with Randy Holmes-Farley" I got to thinking. Yes, a dangerous past time, I know. I live pretty close to the ocean here in Southern Massachusetts, and I have pretty easy access to Cape Cod Bay and Nantucket Sound/Buzzards Bay. For the past couple years that I've been "Reefing" I've used almost exclusively "Real Ocean" boxed saltwater for water changes. Now, I know that it would be cheaper in the long run to hook up an RODI system and mix my own water. This is something that I fully plan to do once we move out of our condo and into an actual house - where I will have the space and availability to set up a large(r) tank between 90 and 200 gallons. In the article, it mentions that natural sea water has quite low concentrations of most of the bad stuff - phosphates, nitrates, etc. - and that's when I got to thinking (stand back!) that maybe I could just use natural sea water for water changes. I would make back the cost of a couple buckets on the first trip - plus I like going to the ocean anyway. If I lived in the Bahamas/Virgin Islands/Florida Keys I wouldn't think twice about grabbing a bucket-full of Atlantic and putting it in my aquarium. However, I live just a bit south of Boston, Massachusetts - where you can't swim in the city's main river most of the time because of pollution. This means I need to figure out what to test for, and HOW to test for it before I can use the "free" water. I'm guessing my biggest concern would be fertilizer (nitrates/nitrogen) and "organics" from run-off near the more highly-populated and well-manicured neighborhoods. I may set up a small, 10-gallon test tank and just give it a go with some live rock - I try not to risk too many critters' lives if I can help it. I can let it run for a few months (6-8) with regular water changes and testing and see where it goes before mixing it in to the main display. If you have any thoughts or advice, I would love to hear it. Thank you, David

06-23-2008, 01:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
vdituri Excellent Guesser :D Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 6,244 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons? Unfortunately, there may be more in the water than you can test for. If your natural saltwater had diesel or gasoline in it there is no test that would warn you. Ammonia, nitriite, nitrate, or phosphates, it would be a different story. It's a roll of the dice. Feel lucky? lol __________________ Victor ----- People come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime. When you know which one it is, you will know what to do for that person. When someone is in your life for a REASON, it is usually to meet a need you have expressed. They have come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you physically, emotionally or spiritually. They may seem like a godsend and they are. They are there for the reason you need them to be. Then, without any wrongdoing on your part or at an inconvenient time, this person will say or do something to bring the relationship to an end. What we must realize is that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled, their work is done. The prayer you sent up has been answered and now it is time to move on.

06-23-2008, 01:11 AM	#5 (permalink)
vdituri Excellent Guesser :D Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 6,244 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons? I AM THE VOICE OF DOOM!!!! DOOM! DOOM! lol. I'm just saying. There are more things in the water than we can possibly test for. __________________ Victor ----- People come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime. When you know which one it is, you will know what to do for that person. When someone is in your life for a REASON, it is usually to meet a need you have expressed. They have come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you physically, emotionally or spiritually. They may seem like a godsend and they are. They are there for the reason you need them to be. Then, without any wrongdoing on your part or at an inconvenient time, this person will say or do something to bring the relationship to an end. What we must realize is that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled, their work is done. The prayer you sent up has been answered and now it is time to move on.

06-23-2008, 05:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
SubRosa Torch coral Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 563 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons? More of a problem with NSW is potential die-off of plankton.Try a little experiment.Take a clean white bucket and fill it with NSW.Cover it and wait a few days then check out the crud on the bottom.Then test your ammonia!If you ran the water through a micron filter and then carbon you could probably avoid these problems, but I guess it's a question of what's your time worth. John __________________ Life is a comedy to those who think and a tragedy to those who feel.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

06-23-2008, 05:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
glampka Achilles Tang Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Margaritaville Posts: 885 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons? If you were to use NSW the best thing to do is to collect it from a few miles off shore since most of the pollution ends up along the shoreline. __________________ We are the people our parents warned us about! JB 30 gal mixed reef 12 gal mixed Aquapod, 70 W MH 12 gal JBJ cube - mixed reef 12 gal Aquapod - work in progress

06-23-2008, 06:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
ThePuffLife Pistol Shrimp Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Staring at my Tank Posts: 252 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons? Cons- The water is EXTREMLY dirty... wat with toddlers who have no bladder control swimming in it, uneaten food, etc. Pros- Well, i cant think of any...

06-23-2008, 08:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
funkpolice Reef Lobster Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Orland Park IL Posts: 1,399 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons? I don't think it's a good idea to put in the reef, but it might be different to start an "industrial run off" specific tank. You would have to buy a petroleum test kit, and dose when necessary. bill

06-23-2008, 08:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
reefsurf Scopas Tang Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 447 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons? hmmm i fish offshore during the summer months here in sd and south into mexico. i've thought about taking a couple 5 gal. containers out and collecting water. not sure though that the gains outweigh the risks. __________________ http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...e-upgrade.html Lance

06-23-2008, 09:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
mps9506 Totally back Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 8,525 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons? You guys near the ocean may want to see if any universities near you have aquaculture programs that pump in NSW. I'm lucky enough to have one that pumps in NSW that is used for all kinds of aquaculture uses from breeding flounder and grouper to oysters and copepods. they allow the general public to use the water as well, we get a choice of raw unfiltered NSW or water that has gone through ozone, UV, and a couple of huge sand filters. I generally use the filtered for my tanks, but have thought about setting up a tank using the raw, but with all the sewage spills in our area over the last few years... Anyhow if the university can raise inverts and fish in this water I figured I can keep my reef tank going in it. Saved a bunch on salt over the years, but still go through the RO/DI filters for top offs. __________________ Mike Reefkeeping Since '99 Help Build Reefpedia Premium Memberships Available! Support Reef Sanctuary Sponsors

06-29-2008, 05:23 PM	#13 (permalink)
mps9506 Totally back Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 8,525 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons? It is helpful for sure. Helps cut some of the costs on maintaining the tank since I don't have to order nearly as much salt mix. I still keep it on hand, but just don't use much. That said it is a lot of working lugging the buckets of water in and out of my car. One of the other local guys uses it for his 180 and frag tanks. He loads the back of his truck up with big rain barrels to transport 100-200 gallons at a time. __________________ Mike Reefkeeping Since '99 Help Build Reefpedia Premium Memberships Available! Support Reef Sanctuary Sponsors

07-03-2008, 03:17 PM	#14 (permalink)
JT101 Plate Coral Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hicksville NY Posts: 741 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons? I did it from June 2007 until December 2007. The reason I stopped was because I realized that in the winter around here winter = snow, snow = road ice, road ice= road salt, road salt = dangerous coastal runoff. I have VERY easy access to clean OCEAN water (Jones Inlet) but I got nervous so I stopped. I got a RO/DI system from Jack and I'm not at all sorry I went the RO/DI way. I never realized how incredibly convenient it is to have pure RO/DI water virtually on demand.

07-08-2008, 02:48 AM	#15 (permalink)
Wolfgang8810 Harlequin Tuskfish Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 935 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Using Actual Ocean Water - Pros/Cons? I have collected NSW before but i got it 5 miles off shore and 10 ft below the surface. it worked great but gas prices went up and that made buying SW form the LFS more economical. __________________ I love fish! Fish.. fish.. fish!

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