Ocean nitrates expected to go up

kathywithbirds · 12-18-2007, 02:02 AM

Corn boom may expand 'dead zone' - Environment - MSNBC.com

Woodstock · 12-18-2007, 07:01 AM

Frankie · 12-18-2007, 07:34 AM

BigAl07 · 12-18-2007, 08:14 AM

Wow! That's VERY disturbing! I wonder if they could combine crops and maybe plant something along the finges/edges that could increase the uptake of Nitrogen! Maybe create like a barrier between the run-off and the rivers/streams with something that takes up nitrogen very quickly and effciently. I'm sure (or at least hope) there's a plant that can do this. Maybe just a strip of this barrier plant between the crop and the waters edge.

Or what about some type of system that can absorb it.. like some type of matting or something? There's GOT to be a way to handle this.....

DrHank · 12-18-2007, 08:56 AM

It's really a shame and I wish there was a solution but when you tell a farmer that he can double his income by growing corn what else can he do. He has a family to feed and bills to pay to. If only someone could come up with a lucrative crop with a high nitrogen uptake to plant between the corn and the tributaries that catch the run off.

Unfortunately, for every good side there seems to be a bad side too.

wonderloss · 12-18-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrHank

It's really a shame and I wish there was a solution but when you tell a farmer that he can double his income by growing corn what else can he do. He has a family to feed and bills to pay to.

Get rid of government subsidies that encourage this sort of behavior?

xelnaga15 · 12-18-2007, 09:17 AM

You know what else is disturbing about this.... I may have read wrong when I was in the San diago Aquarium's global warming exhibit... but I'm Quite sure I read that Ethanol based fuel (the corn fuel they are talking about in this article) causes more air pollution than gasoline! That the only benefit to E85 Ethanol is PRICE....... SO lame ... not only are we killing the skies but now our little wet friends!

Not to get into a political discussion here but I think we can all agree we need a change in our government (not talking about just the president) to take a stand and put a stop to some things that are being allowed to happen to our environment. You know it was my understanding that the problem with using oil based fuel wasn’t just a problem with the price.... at least in my book price isn’t the only issue I have with oil based fuel. I think it’s not even a step in the right direction to use E85 ethanol but more of a trading price for more pollutants. We need to move to something that is not only friendly on our wallets but our little friends as well.

Sorry about the ethanol rant but this is one of the main reasons corn farmers are planting so much corn!

Amphibious · 12-18-2007, 09:48 AM

There is a way to reduce or eliminate the Nitrogen runoff. It's called marshes and estuaries that naturally filter out all sorts of pollutants. A great example of this would be the original Everglades, the "Sea of Grass". But "progress", government, Army corps of Engineers and sugar cane growers have nearly destroyed this natural filter. Now we are spending billions of dollars to come up with a renovation to restore the natural flow of water through the Everglades.

The destruction of our precious natural resource will continue as long as real estate demand for lake or shore front property keeps prices sky high. The Mississippi delta, while huge, is being exploited in the same manner.

I worked around the farming community for ten years. Their costs of doing business are high and their profits low. Machinery costs, to plant and harvest crops, are outrageous. Statistics prove in a ten year period the farmer would have two profitable years, five mediocre years and three years of going in the hole. Not a good way to make a living. There's lots more that goes into the equation but if it weren't for the dedication of the farmer this country would be in dire straits.

Yes I know, if it weren't for the government's meddling into our daily lives trying to solve our every problem with subsides, we'd probably be better off financially, too. It's not an easy thing to do, keeping 260 million people safe, feed, housed, clothed, educated and happy, but America is still the land of freedom and opportunity.

Wow, OK, I'll get down off my soap box now.

Dick

nanoreefsrcool · 12-18-2007, 09:55 AM

this sux

their will be no such thing as coral in 20 years .due to over fishing global warming and toxix dumping. there goes my big dream about haveing a monster reef when i get older

DrHank · 12-18-2007, 10:16 AM

You may still be able to have your monster reef but you'll have to grow it yourself. The wonderful thing about this hobby is that with the advances in coral farming and more and more folks who are learning how to maintain their own home reefs, we may be able to help ensure that future aquarium owners are successful.

One of the best things about RS is that there is a nearly endless amount of accurate information and a bunch of friendly folks who only want to be able to help.

michael_cb_125 · 12-18-2007, 10:24 AM

It is hard to imagine that there is more life in the sea than on land. Then take into consideration that these places are rapidly declining, thanks to humans(and other things).

I feel bad for the farmers. They are only trying to make a living. People cant blame them, farmers are only doing their jobs. Unfortunatley, farmers are not appreciated enough. Without farmers, the US would be royally screwed. I just wish the government would just back off and take action. The government does do many good things, but it is just liek with everything else, people focus on the NEGATIVE.

meandean45 · 01-01-2008, 08:36 AM

Can anybody prove any of this? I read a lot of "could, should, might, etc.", but see no definitive proof that any of this has anything to do with corn, or that corn WILL cause this problem to get worse. Our government and the media have a long history of manipulating information to get what they want from the public.

Regards, Dean

kathywithbirds · 01-01-2008, 09:24 AM

Ah, a fellow conspiracist, Dean?

I believe I'm agreeing with Amphibious... river deltas act as a natural filter. BUT I don't think it's just the government that needs to change its tune. We are all guilty of self-concernment, (is that a word? how about self-interest?) not out of selfishness but just because one is focused on one's needs first. That filters out all kinds of ways, leading to us leveling deltas and rainforests, killing off endangered species, etc. Then when we go to try and "fix" a problem, like growing corn for ethanol for "greener" cars, we create even more problems. I believe we should try to put the world back the "way it was" before we started messing with it, it would be healthier for the entire human race. Just don't ask me how, I have no idea.

I'm a fan of Dr. Ian Malcom's statement that we're not killing the planet, we're making it inhospitable for ourselves.

... have I elaborated on my dolphin/Atlantis theory yet?

cracker · 01-01-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meandean45

Can anybody prove any of this? I read a lot of "could, should, might, etc.", but see no definitive proof that any of this has anything to do with corn, or that corn WILL cause this problem to get worse. Our government and the media have a long history of manipulating information to get what they want from the public.

Regards, Dean

I agree Dean! The MSNBC article doesn't say anything about that it's mostly caused by heavy flow of freshwater is the main cause of low oxygen levels in the Gulf of Mexico. Sorry but the statement "A 7,900 sq mile dead zone where no fish can survive" is imo way over blown. That's like saying a cesspool the size of New Jersey exists right off the coast of Louisiana.

kathywithbirds · 01-01-2008, 09:41 AM

That article is definitely more precise in its factiods, cracker, but it's from 2005. I don't believe the 7,900 sq ft figure is BS, but MSN doesn't elaborate on details of how they got that figure. I live within spitting distance of the Delaware, and trust me, there can be ALOT of pollutants around... as a matter of fact, this area is being studied for pollutants with the predicted end result of eminent domain-ing a large portion of the city adn kicking people out of their homes because it will be deemed unfit for living. In about a year.

12-18-2007, 02:02 AM	#1 (permalink)
kathywithbirds You talkin ta ME? Join Date: May 2007 Location: Philly area, NJ Posts: 4,929 View Gallery Karma Komment	Ocean nitrates expected to go up Corn boom may expand 'dead zone' - Environment - MSNBC.com __________________ (\__/) (\__/) (@.@) (^.^) (")_(") (< >)

12-18-2007, 07:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
Woodstock The Wand Geek was here. ;) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 21,675 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Ocean nitrates expected to go up __________________ ~Doni Marie~ *GOT ICH???* ~120 Reef Chronicle ~ *~29 gal QT/Hospital tank~* *~3 gal Pico~* "Energy and persistence conquer all things." Benjamin Franklin __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________ 120 mixed reef, dual Reeflux 10k 250 MH, dual Actinic t5s,AquaController III, ASM g3, 2x Korallia #3, Mag 9.5 return

12-18-2007, 07:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
Frankie Angel Girl's Daddy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The End Of The World Posts: 6,035 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Ocean nitrates expected to go up __________________ Visit my aquarium -->Frankie's 120 gal Experiment Bruce: Today's meeting is Step 5: Bring a fish friend. Everyone brought a fish friend? DIY=DO IT YOURSELF! If we ignore the environment maybe it will go away....

12-18-2007, 08:14 AM	#4 (permalink)
BigAl07 Reef Addict (hopeless) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Waynesville, North Carolina Posts: 8,844 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Ocean nitrates expected to go up Wow! That's VERY disturbing! I wonder if they could combine crops and maybe plant something along the finges/edges that could increase the uptake of Nitrogen! Maybe create like a barrier between the run-off and the rivers/streams with something that takes up nitrogen very quickly and effciently. I'm sure (or at least hope) there's a plant that can do this. Maybe just a strip of this barrier plant between the crop and the waters edge. Or what about some type of system that can absorb it.. like some type of matting or something? There's GOT to be a way to handle this..... __________________ Allen Allen's testimonial . . ."Let Me help you help YOURSELF" (Click Here) with a SW set up there is one basic fundamental rule that we ALL should follow *When in doubt... wait it out. This means take it slow and let the tank "develop" and don't rush it. Time is your friend Ask me about how to increase your REEF budget without going without FOOD!!* Big Al's 10g BigAl's Slow 90g Tank Chronicle Julie's (BigAl's Gal) 6g NanoCube Reef Balls & Cakes Debt Free & Change your Family Tree!!

12-18-2007, 08:56 AM	#5 (permalink)
DrHank Golden Moray Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Crestview, FL Posts: 2,249 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Ocean nitrates expected to go up It's really a shame and I wish there was a solution but when you tell a farmer that he can double his income by growing corn what else can he do. He has a family to feed and bills to pay to. If only someone could come up with a lucrative crop with a high nitrogen uptake to plant between the corn and the tributaries that catch the run off. Unfortunately, for every good side there seems to be a bad side too. __________________ Jim Dr Hank's 210 Build: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...nks-tanks.html Dr Hank's 155 Bowfront:http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...-bowfront.html

12-18-2007, 09:17 AM	#7 (permalink)
xelnaga15 Limpet Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbus, GA Posts: 144 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Ocean nitrates expected to go up You know what else is disturbing about this.... I may have read wrong when I was in the San diago Aquarium's global warming exhibit... but I'm Quite sure I read that Ethanol based fuel (the corn fuel they are talking about in this article) causes more air pollution than gasoline! That the only benefit to E85 Ethanol is PRICE....... SO lame ... not only are we killing the skies but now our little wet friends! Not to get into a political discussion here but I think we can all agree we need a change in our government (not talking about just the president) to take a stand and put a stop to some things that are being allowed to happen to our environment. You know it was my understanding that the problem with using oil based fuel wasn’t just a problem with the price.... at least in my book price isn’t the only issue I have with oil based fuel. I think it’s not even a step in the right direction to use E85 ethanol but more of a trading price for more pollutants. We need to move to something that is not only friendly on our wallets but our little friends as well. Sorry about the ethanol rant but this is one of the main reasons corn farmers are planting so much corn! __________________ My First Aquarium 29gal Biocube The Xel Ocean! 210G Journey

12-18-2007, 09:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
Amphibious Midas Blenny Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ft. Pierce, FL Posts: 86 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Ocean nitrates expected to go up There is a way to reduce or eliminate the Nitrogen runoff. It's called marshes and estuaries that naturally filter out all sorts of pollutants. A great example of this would be the original Everglades, the "Sea of Grass". But "progress", government, Army corps of Engineers and sugar cane growers have nearly destroyed this natural filter. Now we are spending billions of dollars to come up with a renovation to restore the natural flow of water through the Everglades. The destruction of our precious natural resource will continue as long as real estate demand for lake or shore front property keeps prices sky high. The Mississippi delta, while huge, is being exploited in the same manner. I worked around the farming community for ten years. Their costs of doing business are high and their profits low. Machinery costs, to plant and harvest crops, are outrageous. Statistics prove in a ten year period the farmer would have two profitable years, five mediocre years and three years of going in the hole. Not a good way to make a living. There's lots more that goes into the equation but if it weren't for the dedication of the farmer this country would be in dire straits. Yes I know, if it weren't for the government's meddling into our daily lives trying to solve our every problem with subsides, we'd probably be better off financially, too. It's not an easy thing to do, keeping 260 million people safe, feed, housed, clothed, educated and happy, but America is still the land of freedom and opportunity. Wow, OK, I'll get down off my soap box now. Dick __________________ Amphibious As I approach my 70th BD, I'm realizing that I cannot help but grow old. However, I refuse to grow up!!! My wife says, "He's approaching 70 going on 17". Life is wonderful with a woman like that. Amphibious' 135gal mixed reef thread

12-18-2007, 09:55 AM	#9 (permalink)
nanoreefsrcool Midas Blenny Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 112 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Ocean nitrates expected to go up this sux their will be no such thing as coral in 20 years .due to over fishing global warming and toxix dumping. there goes my big dream about haveing a monster reef when i get older __________________ 90 gallon Oceanic Tech waiting to be set up 48" Outer Orbit fixture (2)x 150w HQI (2)x 130w Actinic PC 10 Gallon Micro Reef 17lbs Fiji LR (2)x65 watt PC (one actinic, one 10,000k day bulb) 10lbs Carib-sea LS Filtration: Hagen 300gph HOB, Prizn HOB skimmer Flow: Maxi-Jet 400,aqua clear 10 Livestock: Green Clown Goby, hermits and turbo snails ANTI WALDO ANTI BIO BALLS ANTI CARRIBEAN BRISTLE WORM[/b]

12-18-2007, 10:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
DrHank Golden Moray Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Crestview, FL Posts: 2,249 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Ocean nitrates expected to go up You may still be able to have your monster reef but you'll have to grow it yourself. The wonderful thing about this hobby is that with the advances in coral farming and more and more folks who are learning how to maintain their own home reefs, we may be able to help ensure that future aquarium owners are successful. One of the best things about RS is that there is a nearly endless amount of accurate information and a bunch of friendly folks who only want to be able to help. __________________ Jim Dr Hank's 210 Build: http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...nks-tanks.html Dr Hank's 155 Bowfront:http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...-bowfront.html

12-18-2007, 10:24 AM	#11 (permalink)
michael_cb_125 Manta Ray Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Charlotte,NC Posts: 3,076 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Ocean nitrates expected to go up It is hard to imagine that there is more life in the sea than on land. Then take into consideration that these places are rapidly declining, thanks to humans(and other things). I feel bad for the farmers. They are only trying to make a living. People cant blame them, farmers are only doing their jobs. Unfortunatley, farmers are not appreciated enough. Without farmers, the US would be royally screwed. I just wish the government would just back off and take action. The government does do many good things, but it is just liek with everything else, people focus on the NEGATIVE. __________________ 240 Gallon MIXED REEF SUPER TANK Well at least thats what I want it to be 240 Gallon Custom Made Starphire Tank Life Reef Custom Sump,Life Reef Skimmer, Little Giant Return, 2 1200gph Koralias, 2 1580 GPH Tunze Turbelles, 1 Vortec, 72" Solaris I series, PM Kalk Reactor, Custom Made Fug, way to many more things to list Jose say hello to your NEW LITTLE FRIEND!!!!!!!!

01-01-2008, 08:36 AM	#12 (permalink)
meandean45 Ricordea Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bradford, Vt., USA Posts: 177 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Ocean nitrates expected to go up Can anybody prove any of this? I read a lot of "could, should, might, etc.", but see no definitive proof that any of this has anything to do with corn, or that corn WILL cause this problem to get worse. Our government and the media have a long history of manipulating information to get what they want from the public. Regards, Dean __________________ Meandean45 -RELATIVITY: "Sit on a red hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit next to a pretty Girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's Relativity". A.Einstein : "A man's got to know his limitations."- Clint Eastwood in "Magnum Force"

01-01-2008, 09:24 AM	#13 (permalink)
kathywithbirds You talkin ta ME? Join Date: May 2007 Location: Philly area, NJ Posts: 4,929 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Ocean nitrates expected to go up Ah, a fellow conspiracist, Dean? I believe I'm agreeing with Amphibious... river deltas act as a natural filter. BUT I don't think it's just the government that needs to change its tune. We are all guilty of self-concernment, (is that a word? how about self-interest?) not out of selfishness but just because one is focused on one's needs first. That filters out all kinds of ways, leading to us leveling deltas and rainforests, killing off endangered species, etc. Then when we go to try and "fix" a problem, like growing corn for ethanol for "greener" cars, we create even more problems. I believe we should try to put the world back the "way it was" before we started messing with it, it would be healthier for the entire human race. Just don't ask me how, I have no idea. I'm a fan of Dr. Ian Malcom's statement that we're not killing the planet, we're making it inhospitable for ourselves. ... have I elaborated on my dolphin/Atlantis theory yet? __________________ (\__/) (\__/) (@.@) (^.^) (")_(") (< >)

01-01-2008, 09:41 AM	#15 (permalink)
kathywithbirds You talkin ta ME? Join Date: May 2007 Location: Philly area, NJ Posts: 4,929 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Ocean nitrates expected to go up That article is definitely more precise in its factiods, cracker, but it's from 2005. I don't believe the 7,900 sq ft figure is BS, but MSN doesn't elaborate on details of how they got that figure. I live within spitting distance of the Delaware, and trust me, there can be ALOT of pollutants around... as a matter of fact, this area is being studied for pollutants with the predicted end result of eminent domain-ing a large portion of the city adn kicking people out of their homes because it will be deemed unfit for living. In about a year. __________________ (\__/) (\__/) (@.@) (^.^) (")_(") (< >)

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