Ocean nitrates expected to go up

[tbittner]

Farmers have been living at the brink of bankruptcy for a very long time. Good for them if they finally start to get ahead.

[bunjin]

Originally Posted by kathywithbirds

Corn boom may expand 'dead zone' - Environment - MSNBC.com

Great informative article that really shows the problem with the current ethanol lobby.

Farmers being paid huge subsidies from the US government to grow corn for ethanol, while at the same time the US government insisting on use of ethanol when it is scientifically unnecessary is really a huge problem that apparently even has negative environmental impact.

Currently the US Federal government forces California to use ethanol in its gasoline (to meet tougher California emission standards). The state of California conducted studies on how to best construct a gasoline formula that polluted less to meet these emission standards. Ethanol was shown to actually produce higher pollution emissions (‘Fuel Permeation From Automotive Systems' -California Air Resources Board, 2004)

When it came to vote in the US House of Reps, every single California Congressmen, both Republicans and Democrats voted against the Federal government forcing California to use ethanol. Having every single California congressmen of both parties vote the same side is an extreme rarity.

This is an example of the power of the ethanol lobby and how it corrupts true science from being conducted.

[bunjin]

Great informative article that really shows the problem with the current ethanol lobby.

However this bit from the article is very misleading:

But the demand for the corn-based fuel additive ethanol has driven up the price for the crop

The "demand" for ethanol is artificial and forced upon consumers.

Farmers are paid huge subsidies from the US government to grow corn for ethanol, while at the same time the US government insisting on use of ethanol when it is scientifically unnecessary is really a huge problem that apparently even has negative environmental impact. The ethanol lobby is extremely powerful in controlling any legislation on corn/ethanol. In other words, it never gets out of committees.

Currently the US Federal government forces California to use ethanol in its gasoline (to meet tougher California emission standards). The state of California conducted studies on how to best construct a gasoline formula that polluted less to meet these emission standards. Ethanol was shown to actually produce higher pollution emissions (‘Fuel Permeation From Automotive Systems' -California Air Resources Board, 2004)

When it came to vote in the US House of Reps, every single California Congressmen, both Republicans and Democrats voted against the Federal government forcing California to use ethanol. Having every single California congressmen of both parties vote the same side is an extreme rarity.

This is an example of the power of the ethanol lobby and how it corrupts true science from being conducted.

Also keep in mind not all farmers benefit from these government subsidies. You have to grow the corn to their production levels.
Sometimes this results in giving up a traditional local crop that really shouldn't be given up and sometimes this leads to a large over-production of corn and destroyed crops.

the thing about ethanol is that it still is a hydro-carbon and it still puts out co2, and it is less efficent as far as lbs for lbs go

This is spot on.

Here is some more info:

"ethanol-blended gasoline evaporates from the car’s parts faster and does so in a vapor form. Those vapors cause smog.

Ethanol’s evaporative tendencies only get worse in hot climates. The Air Resources Board has since found that the use of ethanol on hot summer days increases emissions of ozone forming compounds by about 75 tons per day above what they would be if we were allowed to use summertime gasoline without ethanol.

This is important because ozone can cause respiratory difficulties in the elderly and those with asthma.

There is a strong direct relationship between temperature and ethanol—the hotter the day, the higher the emissions. On a 100 degree day, emissions are four times higher than on a 68 degree day. Therefore, the worst time to use ethanol is in the summer months."


^and considering Los Angeles was built in a desert and probably has more 100 degree temp days a year than days of rain, this is huge concern with the amount of cars being forced to use ethanol in LA.

[BoomerD]

Originally Posted by wonderloss

Get rid of government subsidies that encourage this sort of behavior?

We could also change from corn to switchgrass for the production of ethanol. FAR more efficient in it's energy ratio, (uses less energy to produce than it's capable of producing) and is more "eco-friendly" to grow. The down side is that it can't be used as a food crop for humans should the market change. (although it does make good livestock fodder) We discussed this at great length in my Environmental Conservation class this past semester.
Scientists Study Feasibility of Switchgrass for Energy Production / March 10, 2006 / News from the USDA Agricultural Research Service

[kathywithbirds]

Hey Boomer, from what I understand pretty much LOTS of crop plants can be used to make ethanol. Or at least some type of fuel substance.

[cheeks69]

Originally Posted by meandean45

Can anybody prove any of this? I read a lot of "could, should, might, etc.", but see no definitive proof that any of this has anything to do with corn, or that corn WILL cause this problem to get worse. Our government and the media have a long history of manipulating information to get what they want from the public.

Regards, Dean

Agricultural runoff in Australia has been causing this problem for decades and because of of the subsequent algal blooms the Crown-of-Thorns Starfish population has exploded, decimating the GBR. Also the article leaves no doubt that there's a "deadzone" and that it's expanding so not really sure what more proof you need.