Over Skimming

[Rcpilot]

Is it possible to over skim a reef tank?

When I first decided to get another fish tank (after 20yrs off), I went to a few LFS around town and asked questions. One woman told me that running a skimmer in a reef was counterproductive. She said the inverts and filter feeders are eating those organic wastes and that skimming them out of the water wasn't really a good idea.

Most everyone else is unanimous in preaching that a skimmer is an absolute "must have" in a reef. Water quality is critical and the skimmer can remove those organics before they actually break down and load the biological filter system.

So, I've got 2 opposing arguments that both make good sense.

I just recently upgraded to a HOB refugium with a MASSIVE skimmer (relative to my tank size). It went nuts and was skimming out all kinds of green goo. I had a small Current Fission Nano skimmer in the tank, and it was nothing but a problem. It wasn't skimming very well at all. When I put thie HOB fuge with skimmer on my tank, I was amazed at how much it was pulling out of the water.

I had a SERIOUS infestation of hair algae before. I was calling it "rope algae" because it was so thick. I have something in the neighborhood of 14 or 16 snails in my 30g tank. They weren't doing much to control the algae.

Well, as soon as I put this new skimmer on, it was belching out green goo and my hair algae started to disappear. Within a week, the hair algae is gone. Thats a good thing. But, my cheato in the fuge is starting to turn brown and shrink. I believe that my skimmer is so oversized for my tank--and so efficient--that it's skimming out just about everything orgainc. I don't have any organics to break down into nitrate. No nitrate--no cheato. No orgaincs for my zoa colonies to filter and feed on. No organics to promote growth of algae--my snails are starving.

Is this even possible?

I'm thinking about turning off the air inlet venturi on my skimmer. Just stop skimming for a couple days and see if it promotes algae growth. I'd at least like my cheato in the fuge to continue growing--not turning brown and shrinking. My goal was to have my fuge completely overgrown with cheato to help slow down water flow through the fuge. Right now, only 1/2 the fuge has cheato in it, and it's shrinking.

I'm confused. It seams really simple to me. Skimming out all the organics and nothing left to promote nitrate production--so algae production and cheato growth slows down. I NEED cheato growth in my fuge and algae for my snails. But sooooooooooo many people talk about using gigantic skimmers on their tanks and skimming 24/7 and getting ALL of those organics out.

Any advice?
Thanks

[BigAl07]

Well technically you CAN over skim but by skimming you are making it less critical on feeding etc etc.

I don't think anyone should run a Reef tank without skimming because water quality is so important. Is the skimmer adjustable? Can't you adjut it down some?

By the way. the fusion skimmer is junk. You did good by replacing it.

Allen

[BigAl07]

Also I have heard of some people running their skimmers on a sort of cycle (only at night or only during the day). Not sure how that works but it's worth an option to see if you can't find a balance between NOT skimming and over skimming. I would NOT run "skimless" just for the sake of some snails though. That's like trimming your R/C plane for straight and level ground handling in order to forsake flight characteristics

Allen

[tbittner]

What light do you have over the Chaeto? Maybe it's not getting enough light.

What is your nitrate reading?

[kyle1284]

i run my skimmer 24/7 and still have algae?

[BigAl07]

Seriously the Cheato should flourish from the light if it's the right light etc!!

Allen

[cheeks69]

Can you overskim a tank ? Well that depends on your definition. Technically you can't overskim because if there's no dissolved nutrients the skimmer will simply stop producing effluent now can it remove enough nutrients to the point were certain corals like LPS and softies and macro-algae be affected ? The answer is yes ! This is one of the reasons why I don't subscribe to the idea "get the most powerful skimmer money can buy".

[sasquatch]

I think the movement to bigger better skimmers was first of all "Because WE Can!" secondly the desire to seriously overfeed the tank, its a balance you'll need to figure out for your situation, cutting back on skimming, feeding more, etc, maybe post your test results, the cheato could be brown for other reasons. steve

[CATALYST]

I know this might sound off but I find that in my tank the macro algaes seem reliant on alk. If my maiden's hair starts wacking out, I check the alk and sure enough...needs to be raised. I killed off a good hunk of chaeto until I figured this out too. A couple of close spaced water changes helped a ton.

[BigAl07]

Originally Posted by CATALYST

I know this might sound off but I find that in my tank the macro algaes seem reliant on alk. If my maiden's hair starts wacking out, I check the alk and sure enough...needs to be raised. I killed off a good hunk of chaeto until I figured this out too. A couple of close spaced water changes helped a ton.

GOod reply Cat! That's very possible indeed

and your comment

Originally Posted by CATALYST

A couple of close spaced water changes helped a ton.

Is the answer for MANY Reef Tank problems. When in doubt test and change.

Allen

[lcstorc]

I'm one of those people who overskim. Shoot, I am running an ASM G4+ on a 125g reef. I have no problems with my cheato and other macro growing in the fuge but then again I love to overfeed the tank. My clams and other filter feeders seem very hapy with the arrangement as do my snails and conchs. I always get that green haze on the glass so when I clean the glass it is dinner time for them. I also feed a variety of food for he fish and the corals. I have very little unwanted algae so I use nori to feed the algae eaters.
It may seem counter productive but all I can say for sure is that my paramaters rarely move at all. I do a 20% water change every other week and that replaces the trace elememts.
On my 20g I run an AquaC Remora. Again many would consider this ovekill. This tank does not have a sump or fuge so I still get a bit of algae in it but thanks to the AquaC it is fairly minimall and pretty easy to deal with.

[Rcpilot]

Sorry for lagging on this topic. I started the thread and then went away for a weekend getaway with the wife and kids.

I just ran my tank "skimmerless" for 48hrs. I simply turned off the air intake so that my skimmer couldn't suck in any air and create bubbles.

I have a little tiny bit of algae growth on the side walls.

ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
pH 8.2 +/-
Alk 3.7
dKH 9.5
Salinity 1.023 +/-
Calcium 475 - coming down slowly, it was 500+

I might try a set schedule for skimming. I DO think a reef needs a good skimmer. No question about it. But, I think I may be skimming out all my trace elements and nutrients with such a huge skimmer in my HOB refugium.

I'm going to go ahead and turn on the skimmer tonight and see how the collection cup looks in the morning. I'll give it 12hrs to run and skim. Then I'll probably shut it off for 48hrs again. And skim for 12hrs again. I'm going to try that routine for a couple weeks and keep testing parameters.

[burning2nd]

i think skimming is directly related to feeding... and food type..

[northbay-reefer]

Having a skimmer that can over skim is a great asset to have. Its much harder to export nutrient and its easy to add more so as you can see, having this option is a huge benefit.

Your chaeto will suffer for a little while but it will recover so I wouldn't worry too much, after all the reason we grow cheato is to export nutrient right ? so the less cheato grows the better your tank is IMO but chaeto will grow once its recovered from lower nutrient that your skimmer is taking out of the system. If you are growing zoas lps and softies then you want a little more nutrient in your tank, but if you are doing sps then you want less, so its depending on what animals you are keeping. But personally, I think a nutrient poor system is much better in the long run so I would rather over skim and direct feed the animals this way I know for sure that my water quality is good so my system is not susceptable to tank crashes

[JT101]

Skimming can't remove trace elements, right? Doesn't it just remove dissolved organics?