Liverock Stocking levels

[cheeks69]

Here's some info on his work:

MARINELAND.COM - DR. TIM'S LIBRARY

Nitrospira: The Real Nitrite-Oxidizing Bacteria in Aquaria

[prow]

for food sources take a look at page 4 on the link. it goes into all that. they are not ture vibrionaceae, it goes into that too. they were just originally classifed as so. these are part of the reefs. they were always known just never looked into. there are many thousands of classiffed bacterias that are placed in a genus because of known similarities, but have yet to be studied with advances in tech. i am sure in the future there will be many more bacterias that can do things we never thought they could do and placed into new classifications or subgroups.

if you get a chance to talk with Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec see what he says about that link i gave. the work was done from notable sources. the other thing is he just might already know about this. the works above are 10 years old. or waiting for more studies.

[cheeks69]

Originally Posted by prow

if you get a chance to talk with Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec see what he says about that link i gave. the work was done from notable sources. the other thing is he just might already know about this. the works above are 10 years old. or waiting for more studies.

Although some of the info is almost 10 years old he has continued his research on different bacteria and developed Bio-Spira which is now sold by MARINELAND to be used to innoculate new setups with large amounts of the nitrispira bacteria.

MARINELAND.COM - BIO-SPIRA TIMELINE

[prow]

yeah i have no dout he is a great resource, for sure. i think his work is on known existing bacteria mostly the "nitro's" and which ones are more effective in the aquarium at certain things that interest his founders. i am sure his employeer limits and determines the direction of his research. not that it doesnt hold up.
its just this is a new possible class and was only found 5 years ago. a new family is proposed "pseudovidrio" for the two strains found so far, maybe to be included are the 3 types found in the grassy shore areas too. its about time, IMO, i mean most are still classified as they were 50 years ago because they are gram neg rods, or there O2 usage no other reason. given what we see/know now and how fast bacteria evolve, its time to update.

[cheeks69]

yeah i have no dout he is a great resource, for sure. i think his work is on known existing bacteria mostly the "nitro's" and which ones are more effective in the aquarium at certain things that interest his founders. i am sure his employeer limits and determines the direction of his research. not that it doesnt hold up.

The purpose of his research was to find the nitrifying/denitrifying bacteria that is typically found in a marine environment and more specific closed environment. Now is there others ? Of course and prodibio/zeovit etc. are some examples and I'm sure as time goes more will pop up.

We really got off-topic and should probably concentrate more on why LR stocking levels are exagerated IMHO.

[prow]

Originally Posted by cheeks69

We really got off-topic and should probably concentrate more on why LR stocking levels are exagerated IMHO.

lol, i was thinking the samething.ok no more wrenches

[DewDropPony]

Originally Posted by mps9506

So over the last ten years or so I've heard all kinds of rules of thumb for how much live rock you need in a reef tank.
My question is; How do you know how much live rock you REALLY need?

The old rule of thumb for the classic Fiji Live rock was anywhere from 1-2lb's/gallon. Then later on I've heard as much as 3-4 per gallon. Then for lighter rock like Vanuatu I've heard go less. And for heavier aquacultured rock you need to go more.

I think we need to remember this is a rule of thumb, or maybe a starting point to get an idea for how much live rock you might need. You might need less, you might need more.
For instance if you have a tank with a light fish load, and keep a high concentration of live SPS coral the bioload in your tank is significantly less. Therefore less liverock is required to provide a substrate for bacteria to do their job. If you want to keep a heavier stock of fish, than more liverock will be necessary to help keep enough bacteria alive to process that nitrogen.

Just some food for thought.
Flame away if you want

Thank you for that insight!

I just started a 5 gallon. I have about 6.5 pounds of LR in it right now. I'm not impatient waiting for the cycling process to end, I'm just taking my time.
I've been trying to decide exactly how much LR I need. Their LR is $3.99 a pound. Keep in mind this is from a non-chain store that specializes in aquariums. Wonderful store! Almost of the staff are seasoned hobbyists and have great advice and are very willing to help a newbie get started in the hobby. Well, I'm a newbie to SW anyway.

Now, at Petco they have LR that's $8.99. In my opinion, it doesn't look to be as good quality. Although, I am a newbie so maybe my idea of what is good might be slightly off. Their LR is almost completly black. Not different shades of green, purple, yelow, etc..like I see of other member's LR on these forums, but just black. Almost all of the staff know less than I do about keeping SW tanks. Needless to say, it seemed a much better idea to get the non-chain LR than the petco LR.

However, from my research I've garthered, the better quality rock is supposed to be more exspensive. So does that make the petco rock better quality? I also read it's supposed to be more holy. (not in a spiritual way, although that would be interesting ). They both seem to be about the same porous consistancy, if I remember correctly.

Unfortunately, neither seem to be as porous as some that I've seem in here. It is not the worst stuff either. It just might be the mid-grade LR. I don't know whether I'm suppose to have 2 pounds per gallon or three. I don't think one pound per gallon is enough. If it can't hurt, why not air on the side of caution and add more. In this case, it still is a small tank so....

[cheeks69]

Originally Posted by DewDropPony

Unfortunately, neither seem to be as porous as some that I've seem in here. It is not the worst stuff either. It just might be the mid-grade LR. I don't know whether I'm suppose to have 2 pounds per gallon or three. I don't think one pound per gallon is enough. If it can't hurt, why not air on the side of caution and add more. In this case, it still is a small tank so....

There's alot of factors to take into consideration which is why I don't like the rule. If you have a powerful skimmer, use a DSB or have a other methods of nutrient export there's no need to load up your tank with rock especially if it's the lighter more porous rock like the Marshall Island, Pukani, kaelini etc.

[DewDropPony]

Originally Posted by cheeks69

There's alot of factors to take into consideration which is why I don't like the rule. If you have a powerful skimmer, use a DSB or have a other methods of nutrient export there's no need to load up your tank with rock especially if it's the lighter more porous rock like the Marshall Island, Pukani, kaelini etc.

It's a 5 gallon so there's no skimmer. I actually don't know what type of rock it is. I was so excited to buy it I forgot to ask.

[lcstorc]

I would definitely go with the non-chain unless the Pecto stuff is a lot more porus. The only black I have heard of is sulfer which is bad. there may be something else but I have not heard it. Also Petco has a very bad rep for SW
Personally I like rock with lots of colors specially purple so it sounds to me like the non-chain wins. Plus it is a lot cheaper.
The one thing I will say is to watch out for hitchikers.