Topic of the Month 02/07 - Sorting Good from Bad Advisers

[sasquatch]

Maybe its not what you ask, its what you see, Ive got 3 LFS within driving range,eg.1 keeps acro frags under N.O. lighting, later bleaches said frags and sells them to beginers as decorations.
eg.2 mass cyano outtbreak in reef tank. dead fish and really sick fish left in disply tanks.
eg.3 Large colony coral with obviously recently snapped off chunks freshly stuck to live rock.
Visual observation is sometimes very rewarding,I strongly suggest multiple visits to LFS to see what goes on before ever buying. Steve

[aquaman3680]

Being that I have worked at several fish stores I can help in this situation. Dentoid- you mentioned something about asking about a fish... By doing this you arent testing the employees knowledge. The name that you call a fish may be different than what the employee knows the fish as.

for example: someone came in and asked me if we carried any two tone gobys. I didn't know what she was talking about and i looked it up in a book. I later found out she was talking about a bi-color blenny. So you cant really judge how much a person knows based on a coral or fish name.

JMHO

Matt

[bluespotjawfish]

Before I even talk to anyone, I look at all their tanks to see if the fish/corals are healthy looking, if tanks are algae free, and if the store is organized and well stocked. Typically once I find that, even if someone working at the store isn't very knowledgable, there is someone around who is. I start by saying, I want talk with someone about... This gives them a way out of responding to the question if they don't know. I don't expect one person to know everything. They usually know who knows about what in the store (someone may know more about fish, someone else about the corals or equipment) and I have found that most employees will get the person I need to answer the specific question or topic I am interested in. If what they tell me doesn't make any sense, I research it some more. I often do not purchase the item they refer me to, but that gives me enough information to research it further. For example, there are lots of different skimmers are out there, so I visited a few stores and asked them what they stocked and why. Just like on this forum, you have to give them enough information about what you need or are interested in achieving for them to effectively help you. I'll ask them what they like about one brand over another, what they don't like... I visited the fish store at least 20 times before I ever purchased my tank setup, visited the library (internet was pretty slow back then), and I also watched my friend establish his tank first (knowing that if he could succeed then I could too).

[Cougra]

Originally Posted by sasquatch

Maybe its not what you ask, its what you see,

This is another very good point that you brought up. Seeing a run down shop is generally a pretty good sign that you probably aren't going to get a lot of good advice, but what about other things to look for in a shop to determine if you should buy things there?
What should people look for in the displays?
How about the dry goods area? I know some shops that have their book section hidden from view and even the books for sale look well used (If you can find them)
Does seeing a good clean store mean you are more likely to get good advice?

Should you wait for employees to ask you questions about the tank before they sell you fish?

[Witfull]

not always true. there is a difference. i know a store its cramped, crowded, not very tank is all sparkly all the time. shelfs can be packed and somewhat cluttered looking. the floor could use a serious buffing. does this make it a bad store? at first glance it may seem that way. but once walking through and seeing their animals and supplies, talking to the employees, the picture changes. they have good fish and invert selection, good turn over, and take time to help customers. some stores may not be the prettiest but they have great stuff and customer service. others may be all bright and polished, but this could be masking another problem.

[DeepBlue]

I think the biggest point here that has been touched on by a few others is, when given advice from an unknown LFS employee, it becomes your responsibility to do your homework. Take the advice you hear and then come to a site like this and throw the question out there. Or do some web searches or look in some books. If the overall response matches what you were told, then that employee has built some credibility. The reverse is also true, if what they say turns out to be false, than don't trust them. It really comes down to not reacting too fast to advice before you can finish your homework.

[sasquatch]

Kris, I agree with what your saying, but how many people just starting out even know that there are perils, bad advice or forums like this?? Its always going to be "buyer beware" until civilization is so well organized that nobody needs to buy anything, its all done on a enthusiast system( unlikely at best)

[emo_1992]

One other thing that many of you have eluded to but not come out and said is to avoid the impulse buy. Like what has been said over and over again is take the advice and research it completly. In some cases the lfs may be trying to please the customer by stepping out of their known realm. Years back I had an lfs that used to keep many reference books in the fish area for the customers to look and research out. This kept his book stock looking good because the complimentary use copies were there for you to look at. It worked well for him because many of us purchased the same books for our home reference library. Many of us stepped into this hobby on impulse and tried to move faster than the tanks and systems would allow. The other thing is to remember when cosidering product many are giving information that came from the supplier or personal bias. There are many different skimmers out there and if you ask a group of people which one they like you will get a number of differnt answers to go with it. The biggest thing that I can suggest to people is when the ask a question is to end it in " and why?"

[sasquatch]

To expand on good/bad advise, what about forums?? many people here cruise multiple sites, everything and anything is contained just like LFS, so in the end Im guessing what we buy, pays the price.If we have a consience(sp) we soon learn to learn and develope respect for our inhabitants, when you consider the accidents, unknowns, mistakes etc that happens to very skilled reefers, maybe the thing to look at is, should anybody be keeping reeftanks. Steve

[Witfull]

now you are hitting a deeper topic steve. even the "experts" cant agree, sometimes they contradict themselves.

the way i try to look at is,,,are they selling something? if they are (as mentioned by emo) there is bias involved. no matter what they are trying to sell (a tank, fish, magic potion additive, professional lecturer{they are selling themselves}) the end result is transfer of funds. this is life. the object is to spend wisely. in the end, its your money, your hobby, your time, effort and what you want out of this (any) hobby.

[boozeman]

well said

[sasquatch]

Sheesh! talking about Deeper Topics, your statement may well be the golden nugget of this whole topic, it covers everything but how to spread the word?

[Witfull]

Originally Posted by sasquatch

your statement may well be the golden nugget

i'd rather have a golden ticket~

[emo_1992]

Here Here and well said witfull.

[sasquatch]

So? has Witfull finished off another topic? lucky for us employees and family are not eligable for prizes at this station lol. Steve