Topic for the week August 7 {Flow}

[billyr98]

Well this will be my first try at a topic of the week.. I am asking for a lot help from experts out there I am no expert! Just someone who loves plumbing tank with high flow Well lets start with - Can you have too much flow? Or not enough flow in a tank?

I think you can not enough flow in a reef tank atmosphere, because you can get things like cynobacteria and such.. But too much? Maybe if you can't keep a coral sitting on a rock...

I have a 210g tank with Reeflo Barracuda pushing about 3000+gph on my filtration side.. I also run two Tunze 6100s on a multicontroller for another 3,170gph each.. I alternate them.. I like SPS and LPS in my tank, so the flow goes great with those corals... But for others it will be too much.. I would say a recommend flow would be about 15x the gallons of the tank...

Flow was also an issue for me when I was thinking about a sand bottom.. I tried a little sand and with all my flow, I had my sand in the back of the reef within a week or so? So how do all you people with sand in your tank, keep it? I would love to add sand, I love the look of it (getting sidetracked here, sorry)..

So how do you control your flow with you substrate would be a great question for this topic...


For determining your flow you want to know which corals like flow and which don't... Make caves and stop the flow near certain corals when needed or get the flow kicking into the acroporas (they love it!)

Thats it for now.. But lets get this thread flowing for others to learn!!!

[Gina]

Trying to direct the flow in such a way that it doesn't kick up the sand, is a pita to me!
We have a closed loop and only 6 outlets. We are running a Dolphin Ampmaster (can't remember off the top of my head which one) and a super sea squirt rated at 2200gph.
I think I have alot of good flow towards the front of the tank but, I am finding out not directed to the back of the tank. I think I need to find some different nozzles for directing the flow than what we have. You can only turn them so far. Or, I need to put in a ph in the back of the rock work.

From what I can remember we are running about 20x the turn over rate.

As for the sand bottom, as I was positioning the nozzles, I would watch the sand and see how badly it would get blown around and then adjust alittle more. Even then, the sand still ends up in little mounds.
I would like to know how other people keep their sand in one place also.

[Woodstock]

Yes, you can have too much/too little flow. Low flow is unhealthy for the tank inhabitants but too much flow can tear tissue or keep a coral from opening up fully. SPS tanks require higher flow thus are usually BB but softie/LPS tanks only require medium flow so they usually have a sand bed. I have 3" sand beds in both my tanks and keep primarily softie/LPS. I have been BB before but prefer the SB for its looks and NNR properties. To preserve it and keep it from blowing into piles, I tweak the flow by creating random currents using a wave maker. Although the flow is not 20x like Gina's, I do get good flow without blowing the sand away. To create turbulance yet avoiding linear blasts of flow, I try to point the returns/power heads towards eachother or bounce the current off of the side/rock/or water surface.

For those of us that use PH, another way to eliminate linear blasts is to use tunze. They are made to create very wide flow zone that spreads the water flow over a much broader area. These units are very pricey but there are modifications available that will turn a modest maxijet from a narrow jetstream into an awesome wide flow unit comparable to the tunze. I saw such a modification on Chad B.'s (reefscience) huge frag tank. He made it sound easy but I've not tried it yet. I'll get the information together and post it soon....

[cheeks69]

Flow can you have too much ? Some say no my experience is yes !

If you have any large LPS it's very difficult to keep them happy if you want SPS and the strong flow they require. I have a Euphyllia ancora that I've had for at least 3 years that used to extend to the size of two grapefruits and when I had my flow at about 30x turnover pieces of flesh were actually ripping right from the skeleton. Also most of my other LPS would not open fully. I have a cube so the situation is a bit different for me since my tank is only 30"x30", if it was longer then the problem would be minimized.

On the other hand when I reduced the flow to about 20x turnover cyano began to appear on the substrate so flow placement is key. The placement of LR is also very important so you can have evenflow throughout the tank.

Can you not have enough ? Yes and I think this is the more common problem. IMO if your keeping a mixed tank 15to 20x turnover should be what your shooting for.

I tried a little sand and with all my flow, I had my sand in the back of the reef within a week or so? So how do all you people with sand in your tank, keep it?

Once the sand becomes colonized by bacteria this problem should go away but it will take some time.

I think I need to find some different nozzles for directing the flow than what we have

Gina I don't remember but did you use Loc-Line ?

[Witfull]

i definately have alot of thoughts on this topic,,,but at work at the moment. i will dive in tonight~

[Gina]

Robert,
No we don't have the loc-line. Mark found these on-line and this is what we are using. You are really limited in the direction that you can point them in.
We have two in each corner in the back of the tank. One is pointing towards the middle and the other is more towards the front of the tank.
We then have one on each side of the tank towards the front corner and they are both pointing at each other. We only have 6 outlets for the closed loop. We tried more but the flow that came out was really poor.

I am constantly fighting cyano and a lime green algae and it's especially bad behind the rock work.
I never had these kind of problems with our old 46 but, we had more flow in that tank also.

[billyr98]

Gina that is a locline nozzle... with male threads...

[cheeks69]

Originally Posted by billyr98

Gina that is a locline nozzle... with male threads...

Mine is alot longer and I'm able to twist it around in just about any direction.

[Woodstock]

Gina, you can pop off that nozzle and put an extension on it. Then you can adjust the flow direction better.
I can pop the nozzles off by hand but need the locline 'pliers' to put them back together. Mark may be able to do it...

[billyr98]

anyone lucky enough to have an VorTech Propeller Pump.. I would love to get one... just expensive but awesome design!

[R.yumaDaddy?]

Ditto on Billys question... I will have my pair sooooooon.

[Frankie]

With my new tank set up flow is everything. I plan on having sps only this time and my tank is perfect for it. I have a closed loop drilled, with 4 inputs and its plumbed to an ampmaster 3000. A 25watt uv plumbed to a Gen-X 4100 pump returning to a tee lockline set up so i can counter flow the CL and my return from the fuge. The return is not for flow being it comes from my refugium but still has a nice soft flow to it. Its all counter crosses nicely from what i see when i feed. The surfice is turblant from the motion and creates plenty of oxegen. Its bare bottom, i see no way i could have substrate in there but i got use to it. (looks cleaner) I never was able to keep sps before due to lack of flow and high nutrients in my old tank so thats why im going this route this time. Ill post a picture tomorrow of the plumbing on this thing when the sun comes up. Being a fairly new set up i must say i have no algae or syano at all. just some green on the side glass. NBD. The health of my fish is awesome too. I can tell there very happy in the flow of the tank and are stronge and active. I believe there happy just from the flow alone. My majestic angel, (male) a fish in most home aquariums hides in the rock, loves to be up front and on display. And theres no aggression with the swallow tail angel. (female)

[Gina]

I'll have to look into getting different nozzles.
Skimmer pump went on the fritz sometime during the night and is only putting out 70% power and a small amount of electricity in the tank. We have it off right now and will have to order a new pump.

[deaclauderdale]

Even for some as new to this hobby/lifestyle as I am I regonize the importence of flow I will be running the SCWD wave maker on a mag 12 pump wiht a in-line ballvalve to adjust flow. I will also like to get a tunze just in-case seeing as how I want to keep a mix of SPS/LPS in my 100 gal. I also use loc line in my plumping and I believe that it really helps with being able to direct the flow. I will also have a SB so getting it just right is important so as not to release excess nutrients into the tank. But in saying all this the inhabitants of our tanks do experince high and low "flow" in their natural environment (storms, hurricanes, etc.) and all we have to do is find the perfect balance.

[Cougra]

This subject isn't very easy or straight forward as water movement will depend on the type of tank that is being kept. The same turn over rate in same sized tanks set up in different ways can be just right, too much or too little.

While some people try to get as much water flow as possible such as SPS dominated tanks, other types of tanks can't have very strong water movement at all such as Seahorse tanks. Because of the wide range of conditions, substrates, rocks and animals that are available it's vitally important that people plan their tanks according to what they want to keep in the tank before deciding on the type and amount of water flow needed.

One of the more popular terms we see when talking about water flow is the turn over rate but what does this mean exactly to you? How do you measure your turn over rate?

I've read posts where people seem to think that it means how much water needs to flow from the tank through the filtration units and back into the tank again. But is it really necessary to have that much water flowing through a sump? In order for bacteria to do it's job there needs to be adequate contact time between the water and the biological filtration. It's possible to have water flowing through a sump too quickly, especially one that is being used for biological filtration.

Over the years that I've been reading forums and literature, I've found that there has been a lot of improvements in technology to help with good water flow and peoples general understanding of wahter circulation. It's interesting to watch how things are progressing in the hobby.

The one system that I would love to be able to find a way of putting on my tank is an actual wave maker, not one of those electonic things that turn pumps on and off in random order but a bucket placed above that tank that fills and empties quickly to create the most natural wave motions!