Protein Skimming vs Carbon and Pads

gdwats2 · 04-01-2005, 01:13 AM

I have a 90 gallon salt tank which, over the years, has become a reef tank. For filtration I have been using a combination of smaller filters and skimmers. In the end I had accumulated 2 bio-wheel 250's, a bio-wheel 170, a magnum H.O.T 250, a Magnum canister 350, a Fluval 404, a Seaclone Skimmer and a Prizm skimmer all running on the tank. It seemed a rediculous situation, and I think the filters were more trouble than they are helpful. I think they were actually producing nitrate phophate problems. I have since removed the 3 Penguin Biowheels, removed the seaclone skimmer and replaced it with a new Turbofloater 1000 type skimmer (way better), and removed all the media from the Fluval 404. I am still using the Fluval with empty media baskets just for water movement.
My question is this:
Do you all think it a good idea to run this rather heavily populated 90 gallon tank
with just the two protien skimmers for filtration? I have no sump...yet.

Thanks,
Greg

mopecula · 04-01-2005, 01:27 AM

skimmers should be all that you need. i run carbon on my tank which also helps to get rid of the doc's that the skimmer misses. some may say that carbon is bad but i have found no ill effects using it. a sump would be the ideal thing to have on the tank that way you could put the skimmer and heaters and etc in it and out of site. i also have a refugium attached to my tank which i believe helps.

Travis · 04-01-2005, 01:43 AM

I think carbon is a great safety net, especially if you're mixing soft and stony corals.

But definitely lose the pads and biowheels.

T

gdwats2 · 04-01-2005, 02:55 AM

Done. Thanks for the advice.The Penguins are gone. The pads and media removed from the Fluval. Am thinking about putting some live rock in a couple of the Fluvals media baskets and continue using it for current. Bad idea?

Eric · 04-01-2005, 02:59 AM

fill th fluval with carbon that and your skimmer you should be ok that's all I use besides a refugiu/sump

Brucey · 04-01-2005, 07:38 AM

Yep, I run a Turbofloater5000 and use carbon 24x7x365 . . . . works for me and is a great safety net if one of your corals starts throwing toxins into the water. Think about running a phosphate removing media (Rowaphos, Antiphos etc), to give the water that extra clean
Brucey

KimPossible · 04-01-2005, 09:51 AM

I have not had the guts to remove my last Penguin Bio wheel, I have 80lbs of LR in a 55, however, the crap that that i find on the filters during monthly maintanenece causes me to wonder... do i want that stuff in the tank or on the pads. I currently run a remor skimmer and am going to start working on my sump/refug this weekend.
I know that my biological filter is my LR, my tank is stable (running 8 mo. now) and i worry that changing one factor in my tank will possibly lead other issues.

Brucey · 04-01-2005, 10:48 AM

KP . . . . . I guess the question is, if you got rid of the bio-wheel, would the gunk then by exported to the skimmer instead. Remember, when it's in the skimmer cup, it's out of circulation, when it's on the pads, it's still producing amonia / nitrite / nitrates and phosphates into the system. However, you are right, any change to the system can result in any number of different negative OR positive results.
Brucey

KimPossible · 04-01-2005, 11:35 AM

Your right Brucey, I'd rather have it in my skimmer, when my sump is up and running I think I will take that opportunity to finally get it off the back of my tank.
I think in my case, I cycled with Biozyme and my 2 - 280 Penguin Bio wheels and added LR as I started understanding the make up of the salt world; it is more of a mental thing. I find myself skiddish in my decision making, even though I read and find support and answers on RS.
I'm the same way with algae and other issues, I usually choose to wait it out for a week or so and see if my tank will correct itself rather than running toward an additive.
I really love RS, it is awsome that so many people offer their knowledge and experience. Both items are in short supply here ......but growing

mopecula · 04-01-2005, 11:39 AM

go slow i would not remove evrything at once just to be on the safe side. remove on filter at about every three weeks that way there is not a sudden change to the system. i mean some times those filter may become like a wet dry and you could lose some of the bacteris you need to keep the ammonia etc down. also a sump would also act as a filter in where detrious would be caught in the sump. once a month or so you can remove it or just stir it around to help feed the corals.
Mo

gdwats2 · 04-01-2005, 02:08 PM

Thanks again folks. I am now running a skimmer and carbon only filtration system. One last querry here...How much and how long? It is my intention to go buy some new carbon pellets and put them in 2 out of 4 of the fluval baskets and run for a week before replacing. Is this too long? Too much/not enough carbon?
BTW, I am now using phosphate sponge in a bag in an empty biowheel body(no wheel or pads, just an empty space for PO4 media in bag).

jhnrb · 04-01-2005, 10:49 PM

Make sure you use a reef grade carbon. if you are trying to pull out something change carbon every couple of weeks, if it is for just because/safety every month or other month should be fine. others may have an opinion on this. I would change out one basket each month and rinse the other in aquarium water being removed for water change so each basket gets changed every two months and only half of the carbon is replaced each month. only one thought, hope it helps.

nigle · 04-04-2005, 08:34 PM

Oi!

I have no problems with using carbon, I use it but all you 'reefers' out there do know that no matter how much carbon is being used, 1 teaspoon, 200 pounds, whatever, the 'life' of the carbon is diminished to 0 within 7 days. 1 teaspoon for 90 gal will be 'worthless' in about 20 minutes, 200 pounds will be essentually used up in 7 days, carbon just looses its usefullness in about 3 to 7 days depending on the amount of water being run through it.

So as I said I use carbon in my Emperors, I change the pads about every 4 weeks or so, even thought the usefullness of the carbon is gone in my 75 gal in about 3 days. The filters are turning from 'chemical' to 'biological' filtering, even thought they are always 'physical' filtering but the carbon is worthless after a short time.

I figure if I say it enough times you might get it. 7 days tops for the chemical part of the filtering, if you don't change it it's truning to biological but it is always physical, but please don't believe that the 'carbon' is doing its 'chemical' thingie after 7 days because it isn't.

Cheers!
nigle
!~!

04-01-2005, 01:13 AM	#1 (permalink)
gdwats2 Fire Coral Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 73 View Gallery Karma Komment	Protein Skimming vs Carbon and Pads I have a 90 gallon salt tank which, over the years, has become a reef tank. For filtration I have been using a combination of smaller filters and skimmers. In the end I had accumulated 2 bio-wheel 250's, a bio-wheel 170, a magnum H.O.T 250, a Magnum canister 350, a Fluval 404, a Seaclone Skimmer and a Prizm skimmer all running on the tank. It seemed a rediculous situation, and I think the filters were more trouble than they are helpful. I think they were actually producing nitrate phophate problems. I have since removed the 3 Penguin Biowheels, removed the seaclone skimmer and replaced it with a new Turbofloater 1000 type skimmer (way better), and removed all the media from the Fluval 404. I am still using the Fluval with empty media baskets just for water movement. My question is this: Do you all think it a good idea to run this rather heavily populated 90 gallon tank with just the two protien skimmers for filtration? I have no sump...yet. Thanks, Greg

04-01-2005, 01:27 AM	#2 (permalink)
mopecula Star Polyps Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 166 View Gallery Karma Komment	skimmers should be all that you need. i run carbon on my tank which also helps to get rid of the doc's that the skimmer misses. some may say that carbon is bad but i have found no ill effects using it. a sump would be the ideal thing to have on the tank that way you could put the skimmer and heaters and etc in it and out of site. i also have a refugium attached to my tank which i believe helps. __________________ Check out my site: www.mmota.homestead.com

04-01-2005, 01:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
Travis Smilie Bartender Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 6,890 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	I think carbon is a great safety net, especially if you're mixing soft and stony corals. But definitely lose the pads and biowheels. T __________________ Help build the Encyclopedia of ReefKeeping Find over 1400 Reef Aquarium Articles at The Reef Aquarium Index

04-01-2005, 07:38 AM	#6 (permalink)
Brucey Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Reading, England Posts: 1,292 View Gallery Karma Komment	Yep, I run a Turbofloater5000 and use carbon 24x7x365 . . . . works for me and is a great safety net if one of your corals starts throwing toxins into the water. Think about running a phosphate removing media (Rowaphos, Antiphos etc), to give the water that extra clean Brucey __________________ 160UK Gallon. (192US Gallon). 400Lbs LR. Aquamedic Turboflotor 5000 Shorty skimmer. Arcadia 3Series pendant (3x250W 14,000'K MH & 2x58W 60" actinic) (DIY cooling fan). Tunze 7095 Multicontroller & 2xTunze 6100 Streams. Redsea 100 Aquazone Plus ozonizer and redox computer. Aquamedic Ocean Runner 6500 return. TMC Vectron 30W UV sterilizer. Aquamedic Aquaniveau auto top up system through Deltec 500 kalk stirrer. PurityOnTap RO/DI. Deltec FR509 (ROWAPhos). Aquamedic PH computer controlling KNOP HD Calcium Reactor. Setup Nov 2002 See my tank here http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...&threadid=4486

04-01-2005, 09:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
KimPossible Golden Moray Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilbert, Arizona Posts: 2,549 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	I have not had the guts to remove my last Penguin Bio wheel, I have 80lbs of LR in a 55, however, the crap that that i find on the filters during monthly maintanenece causes me to wonder... do i want that stuff in the tank or on the pads. I currently run a remor skimmer and am going to start working on my sump/refug this weekend. I know that my biological filter is my LR, my tank is stable (running 8 mo. now) and i worry that changing one factor in my tank will possibly lead other issues. __________________ Kim ~My environment is a product of myself~

04-01-2005, 02:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
gdwats2 Fire Coral Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 73 View Gallery Karma Komment	Done. Thanks for the advice.The Penguins are gone. The pads and media removed from the Fluval. Am thinking about putting some live rock in a couple of the Fluvals media baskets and continue using it for current. Bad idea?

04-01-2005, 02:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
Eric Neon dottyback Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 685 View Gallery Karma Komment	fill th fluval with carbon that and your skimmer you should be ok that's all I use besides a refugiu/sump

04-01-2005, 10:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
Brucey Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Reading, England Posts: 1,292 View Gallery Karma Komment	KP . . . . . I guess the question is, if you got rid of the bio-wheel, would the gunk then by exported to the skimmer instead. Remember, when it's in the skimmer cup, it's out of circulation, when it's on the pads, it's still producing amonia / nitrite / nitrates and phosphates into the system. However, you are right, any change to the system can result in any number of different negative OR positive results. Brucey __________________ 160UK Gallon. (192US Gallon). 400Lbs LR. Aquamedic Turboflotor 5000 Shorty skimmer. Arcadia 3Series pendant (3x250W 14,000'K MH & 2x58W 60" actinic) (DIY cooling fan). Tunze 7095 Multicontroller & 2xTunze 6100 Streams. Redsea 100 Aquazone Plus ozonizer and redox computer. Aquamedic Ocean Runner 6500 return. TMC Vectron 30W UV sterilizer. Aquamedic Aquaniveau auto top up system through Deltec 500 kalk stirrer. PurityOnTap RO/DI. Deltec FR509 (ROWAPhos). Aquamedic PH computer controlling KNOP HD Calcium Reactor. Setup Nov 2002 See my tank here http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...&threadid=4486

04-01-2005, 11:35 AM	#9 (permalink)
KimPossible Golden Moray Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilbert, Arizona Posts: 2,549 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Your right Brucey, I'd rather have it in my skimmer, when my sump is up and running I think I will take that opportunity to finally get it off the back of my tank. I think in my case, I cycled with Biozyme and my 2 - 280 Penguin Bio wheels and added LR as I started understanding the make up of the salt world; it is more of a mental thing. I find myself skiddish in my decision making, even though I read and find support and answers on RS. I'm the same way with algae and other issues, I usually choose to wait it out for a week or so and see if my tank will correct itself rather than running toward an additive. I really love RS, it is awsome that so many people offer their knowledge and experience. Both items are in short supply here ......but growing __________________ Kim ~My environment is a product of myself~

04-01-2005, 11:39 AM	#10 (permalink)
mopecula Star Polyps Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 166 View Gallery Karma Komment	go slow i would not remove evrything at once just to be on the safe side. remove on filter at about every three weeks that way there is not a sudden change to the system. i mean some times those filter may become like a wet dry and you could lose some of the bacteris you need to keep the ammonia etc down. also a sump would also act as a filter in where detrious would be caught in the sump. once a month or so you can remove it or just stir it around to help feed the corals. Mo __________________ Check out my site: www.mmota.homestead.com

04-01-2005, 02:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
gdwats2 Fire Coral Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 73 View Gallery Karma Komment	Thanks again folks. I am now running a skimmer and carbon only filtration system. One last querry here...How much and how long? It is my intention to go buy some new carbon pellets and put them in 2 out of 4 of the fluval baskets and run for a week before replacing. Is this too long? Too much/not enough carbon? BTW, I am now using phosphate sponge in a bag in an empty biowheel body(no wheel or pads, just an empty space for PO4 media in bag).

04-01-2005, 10:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
jhnrb Scopas Tang Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Eureka, CALIF. Posts: 496 View Gallery Karma Komment	Make sure you use a reef grade carbon. if you are trying to pull out something change carbon every couple of weeks, if it is for just because/safety every month or other month should be fine. others may have an opinion on this. I would change out one basket each month and rinse the other in aquarium water being removed for water change so each basket gets changed every two months and only half of the carbon is replaced each month. only one thought, hope it helps.

04-04-2005, 08:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
nigle Tuxedo Urchin Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Gary, Indiana Posts: 292 View Gallery Karma Komment	Oi! I have no problems with using carbon, I use it but all you 'reefers' out there do know that no matter how much carbon is being used, 1 teaspoon, 200 pounds, whatever, the 'life' of the carbon is diminished to 0 within 7 days. 1 teaspoon for 90 gal will be 'worthless' in about 20 minutes, 200 pounds will be essentually used up in 7 days, carbon just looses its usefullness in about 3 to 7 days depending on the amount of water being run through it. So as I said I use carbon in my Emperors, I change the pads about every 4 weeks or so, even thought the usefullness of the carbon is gone in my 75 gal in about 3 days. The filters are turning from 'chemical' to 'biological' filtering, even thought they are always 'physical' filtering but the carbon is worthless after a short time. I figure if I say it enough times you might get it. 7 days tops for the chemical part of the filtering, if you don't change it it's truning to biological but it is always physical, but please don't believe that the 'carbon' is doing its 'chemical' thingie after 7 days because it isn't. Cheers! nigle !~!

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