Closed Loop or Tunze ?

bonerfortuna · 06-30-2004, 09:50 AM

Im in the process of putting together my first true reef tank. My Nanocube has bitten me bad and I need room to grow . Ive got a 50 breeder (36 by 18 by 18 ) on order drilled for four 1 inch bulkheads in the back wall. I plan to use 2 for the sump and the others possibly for a C/L system but am considering using the Tunze pumps (stream or turbelle) . My question to all here , if money isnt a factor in your decision what would you choose? I plan to have MH /VHO lighting but very little SPS . My dream tank will host zoos, blastos ,ricordia, mushrooms and mostly softies . I really want to do this right from the first time and using this forum and your experience will help me along. Thanks in advance. Peter

Playa · 06-30-2004, 10:08 AM

Use both if you can afford it:-)

middletonmark · 06-30-2004, 12:25 PM

I'd consider the Tunzes [not the turbelles, that tank is small for that] ... but in terms of power consumption - Tunzes would be cheapest to run. Probably last quite a while too.

And probably would add the least amount of heat [or noise] to the tank + surroundings.

That's my take. That's also not a very large tank [I have a 40 breeder + 58 ... same dimensions but taller/shorter]. That's a lot of space for water movement ... and a consideration.

Good luck with it

tommyp · 06-30-2004, 01:43 PM

I would use the CL with a blueline pump (very efficent). That is a pretty small tank for steams. Even though it can be done why take up the space. I would look into the oceansmotions device. that will give you the random flow that you want on your Cl. The close loop will be pricey but probably half what two steams would cost and the controller. And your tank will be more open. You could also try some of the seios but they don't have the awesome wavemaking capabilities of the tunzes and they are pretty big as well.

I think the 50 breeder is a great size. Are you going to run two halides? I have a 65 and I run one but will probably soon upgrade to two. a buddy has a 50 breeder that he runs with one 400 and everything seems to do well. but he cut the brace and replaced it with plexi so that there are no shadows in the tank.

my .02

Brucey · 06-30-2004, 01:48 PM

Umm, I think it depends what corals you are planning on having in your new system. If you had softies and LPS's I think a Tunze would be too strong for a 50Gallon. However, if you want a heavily dominated SPS tank like mine, you just can't get enough flow and go for the tunze if you can
Brucey

bonerfortuna · 06-30-2004, 02:07 PM

Thanks for the responses all. My intention is to run a single 250 MH and 2*95w VHO's in a pendant. This is likely overkill since I plan on hosting mainly zoos, ricordia,mushrooms leathers and other softs. I will have a couple of SPS but Im not ready to get crazy yet with dosing and all the extra chemicals to have SPS madness. It will be barebottom. I really want to make this foolproof and simple so I can go off fishing a week at a time and leave it in the hands of the G/F.

Scooterman · 06-30-2004, 02:12 PM

I've been using my Tunze Stream @ 1,800gph for about a year now. I have a controller on it, I could use two in my 100g tank. I have no complaints on the performance, excluding the fact that it hangs in the tank. These are very, very efficient, & little heat issues. Now with that said, A CLS, with a good pump, on a motorized ball valve, your talking big, performance, if you plan it well, a properly sized pump can outperform a stream but there is trade offs to consider. One Tunze are costly but efficient, easy to set-up, awesome flow patterns. Cleaning & hanging in the tank I don't care for. CLS, umm get a good pump, MBV and umm let it run, external pump no heat, may cost a little more to run, may be nosier, Plumbing work for sure. The Tunze also has some restriction on placement, directional flow patterns & have to let it out in the open to blow a nice pattern, CLS, just move the directional pipes where you need the flow,

Just some thoughts, which is better, the world may never know!

Witfull · 06-30-2004, 02:22 PM

50 cents of one half dollar of the other,,,eh?

Scooterman · 06-30-2004, 02:34 PM

yeper!

choati · 06-30-2004, 07:15 PM

Hello,
Well all I can say is I run the tunze stream and my tank is a 240 cube 4x3x30.I opt to not go with a closed loop.I am totaly sold on the streams.I belive someone already mentioned it if not the tunzes throw out a stream of about 2 by 2 foot square.you might have a rpoblem with it moving so much the sand will never settle.
Here is another suggestion I also use the scwd.maybe using two and criss-crossing in each corner.It sounds like money is no object (as they say if you have to think about it maybe you need an other hobby)just saying that size tank you can save on the Tunze and have more money for the refugium,skimmer,and lights.You will most likely need a chiller and calcium reactor.But so far sounds like you are doing it right.Any question feel free to email.I love the challange of aquascaping and solving circulation things.

have fun

Choati

Playa · 06-30-2004, 07:23 PM

Nice to see you posting Joe:-)

Joe post pictures of your gorgeous world class reef or I am going to have to open up a can of whoop uss.

Luis

Maxx · 07-01-2004, 01:12 AM

BFT,
I have a 58 gallon tank that I'm setting up. Its the same foot print as your 50 breeder, just taller, (36Lx18Wx21H). I Emailed Roger Vitko of Tunze Usa and asked him about Streams in this tank. I wanted to run three at first...He said I would have the worlds smallest water park. He suggested one, and pointed out that the streams are VERY good at what they do...which is move ALOT of water gently. As susch they are pretty much geared for a tank just a little longer than ours. I decided to go w/ a closed loop. Check out www.oceansmotions.com . I went w/ the heavy duty 4 way OM unit. Paul, (the manufacturer) is AWESOME. His customer service is fantastic. He has already sent a free improvement to the unit I bought, (two nylon screws that secure two of the pieces together....he has now made them w/ hex key indents on the top, so you dont need to carefully use a 6 sided socket to remove them....) and when I spoke w/ him over the phone and mentioned I was having difficulty finding an adapter the size I needed for my pump to mate up w/ the OM unit...he sent me a new one. Free of Charge.
It is more expensive than a Tunze stream, but for my needs, much better suited.
HTH,
Nick

PS Welcome RS Choati!

SZHTTM · 07-01-2004, 11:30 AM

Check this out...

This 50 gallon tank is running on two Tunze pumps with a single multicontroller.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...4/aquarium.htm

Good Luck and Have Fun!!!;

Maxx · 07-01-2004, 07:42 PM

Uhh, actually thats a 180 gallon.

Quote:

Over the years, I, like most reefkeepers, have had various size tanks. I have had a 1500 liter (400 gallon) sps dominated tank, a 200 liter (50 gallon) tank, and have now settled on my current 700 liter system (185 gallon). This is my best tank.

Quote:

The current tank was started in August 2003. The tank is 120 x 70 x 80cm.

Not trying to be a smart@ss.....
The formulas for converting centimeters to inches is the number of centimeters divided by 2.54.
120 / 2.54 = 47.24...
70 / 2.54 = 27.55...
80 / 2.54 = 31.49...
47.24 x 27.55 x 31.49 = 40983.03...
Divide that number by 231 to get total gallons of volume....
40983.03 / 231 +177.41.....
So its a 177 gallon tank.

Nick

mps9506 · 07-01-2004, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bonerfortuna
Thanks for the responses all. My intention is to run a single 250 MH and 2*95w VHO's in a pendant. This is likely overkill since I plan on hosting mainly zoos, ricordia,mushrooms leathers and other softs. I will have a couple of SPS but Im not ready to get crazy yet with dosing and all the extra chemicals to have SPS madness. It will be barebottom. I really want to make this foolproof and simple so I can go off fishing a week at a time and leave it in the hands of the G/F.

I would think a sea swirl at the end of your return should be good enough plus maybe a well placed powerhead or two.
You aren't going to need a ton opf flow in this tank.

FWIW, I have an SPS dominant 40Breeder setup with 4 MJ 1200's and a Seaswirl powered by a mag9. I plan on adding a closed loop powering a sea swirl and spray bar to replace the powerheads. I had in all reality considered a Tunze stream, but after watching them work they would have blown water right out the top off my tank when the current hit the other side. Sure with some models you can turn it down, but I'm not apying that much just to use a unit to half it's capability. I am considering adding a Rio Seio to my tank however for some more supplemental flow.

06-30-2004, 09:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
bonerfortuna Star Polyps Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Staten Island NY Posts: 162 View Gallery Karma Komment	Closed Loop or Tunze ? Im in the process of putting together my first true reef tank. My Nanocube has bitten me bad and I need room to grow . Ive got a 50 breeder (36 by 18 by 18 ) on order drilled for four 1 inch bulkheads in the back wall. I plan to use 2 for the sump and the others possibly for a C/L system but am considering using the Tunze pumps (stream or turbelle) . My question to all here , if money isnt a factor in your decision what would you choose? I plan to have MH /VHO lighting but very little SPS . My dream tank will host zoos, blastos ,ricordia, mushrooms and mostly softies . I really want to do this right from the first time and using this forum and your experience will help me along. Thanks in advance. Peter __________________ Peter 110 Tenecor Flat Back Hex FOWLRaZaOM 50 Breeder Reef JBJ Nanocube

06-30-2004, 12:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
middletonmark Star Polyps Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 165 View Gallery Karma Komment	I'd consider the Tunzes [not the turbelles, that tank is small for that] ... but in terms of power consumption - Tunzes would be cheapest to run. Probably last quite a while too. And probably would add the least amount of heat [or noise] to the tank + surroundings. That's my take. That's also not a very large tank [I have a 40 breeder + 58 ... same dimensions but taller/shorter]. That's a lot of space for water movement ... and a consideration. Good luck with it __________________ smile smile smile

06-30-2004, 01:43 PM	#4 (permalink)
tommyp Neon dottyback Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: VT Posts: 659 View Gallery Karma Komment	I would use the CL with a blueline pump (very efficent). That is a pretty small tank for steams. Even though it can be done why take up the space. I would look into the oceansmotions device. that will give you the random flow that you want on your Cl. The close loop will be pricey but probably half what two steams would cost and the controller. And your tank will be more open. You could also try some of the seios but they don't have the awesome wavemaking capabilities of the tunzes and they are pretty big as well. I think the 50 breeder is a great size. Are you going to run two halides? I have a 65 and I run one but will probably soon upgrade to two. a buddy has a 50 breeder that he runs with one 400 and everything seems to do well. but he cut the brace and replaced it with plexi so that there are no shadows in the tank. my .02 __________________ "I think that you can start the bombs of oceanrunner. They are good bombs for a rollback." 190g (60x30x25) upgrade in progress, 90g basement sump Check it out here!

06-30-2004, 01:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
Brucey Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Reading, England Posts: 1,292 View Gallery Karma Komment	Umm, I think it depends what corals you are planning on having in your new system. If you had softies and LPS's I think a Tunze would be too strong for a 50Gallon. However, if you want a heavily dominated SPS tank like mine, you just can't get enough flow and go for the tunze if you can Brucey __________________ 160UK Gallon. (192US Gallon). 400Lbs LR. Aquamedic Turboflotor 5000 Shorty skimmer. Arcadia 3Series pendant (3x250W 14,000'K MH & 2x58W 60" actinic) (DIY cooling fan). Tunze 7095 Multicontroller & 2xTunze 6100 Streams. Redsea 100 Aquazone Plus ozonizer and redox computer. Aquamedic Ocean Runner 6500 return. TMC Vectron 30W UV sterilizer. Aquamedic Aquaniveau auto top up system through Deltec 500 kalk stirrer. PurityOnTap RO/DI. Deltec FR509 (ROWAPhos). Aquamedic PH computer controlling KNOP HD Calcium Reactor. Setup Nov 2002 See my tank here http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...&threadid=4486

06-30-2004, 02:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
bonerfortuna Star Polyps Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Staten Island NY Posts: 162 View Gallery Karma Komment	Thanks for the responses all. My intention is to run a single 250 MH and 2*95w VHO's in a pendant. This is likely overkill since I plan on hosting mainly zoos, ricordia,mushrooms leathers and other softs. I will have a couple of SPS but Im not ready to get crazy yet with dosing and all the extra chemicals to have SPS madness. It will be barebottom. I really want to make this foolproof and simple so I can go off fishing a week at a time and leave it in the hands of the G/F. __________________ Peter 110 Tenecor Flat Back Hex FOWLRaZaOM 50 Breeder Reef JBJ Nanocube

06-30-2004, 10:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
Playa Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL Posts: 1,451 View Gallery Karma Komment	Use both if you can afford it:-)

06-30-2004, 02:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
Scooterman Elegance coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Posts: 1,238 View Gallery Karma Komment	I've been using my Tunze Stream @ 1,800gph for about a year now. I have a controller on it, I could use two in my 100g tank. I have no complaints on the performance, excluding the fact that it hangs in the tank. These are very, very efficient, & little heat issues. Now with that said, A CLS, with a good pump, on a motorized ball valve, your talking big, performance, if you plan it well, a properly sized pump can outperform a stream but there is trade offs to consider. One Tunze are costly but efficient, easy to set-up, awesome flow patterns. Cleaning & hanging in the tank I don't care for. CLS, umm get a good pump, MBV and umm let it run, external pump no heat, may cost a little more to run, may be nosier, Plumbing work for sure. The Tunze also has some restriction on placement, directional flow patterns & have to let it out in the open to blow a nice pattern, CLS, just move the directional pipes where you need the flow, Just some thoughts, which is better, the world may never know! __________________ Scott Ardoin (Ard-Dwan)

06-30-2004, 02:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
Scooterman Elegance coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Posts: 1,238 View Gallery Karma Komment	yeper! __________________ Scott Ardoin (Ard-Dwan)

06-30-2004, 07:15 PM	#10 (permalink)
choati Tunicate Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: S.Florida Posts: 2 View Gallery Karma Komment	Tunze Hello, Well all I can say is I run the tunze stream and my tank is a 240 cube 4x3x30.I opt to not go with a closed loop.I am totaly sold on the streams.I belive someone already mentioned it if not the tunzes throw out a stream of about 2 by 2 foot square.you might have a rpoblem with it moving so much the sand will never settle. Here is another suggestion I also use the scwd.maybe using two and criss-crossing in each corner.It sounds like money is no object (as they say if you have to think about it maybe you need an other hobby)just saying that size tank you can save on the Tunze and have more money for the refugium,skimmer,and lights.You will most likely need a chiller and calcium reactor.But so far sounds like you are doing it right.Any question feel free to email.I love the challange of aquascaping and solving circulation things. have fun Choati

06-30-2004, 07:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
Playa Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL Posts: 1,451 View Gallery Karma Komment	Nice to see you posting Joe:-) Joe post pictures of your gorgeous world class reef or I am going to have to open up a can of whoop uss. Luis

07-01-2004, 01:12 AM	#12 (permalink)
Maxx Manta Ray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 3,079 View Gallery Karma Komment	BFT, I have a 58 gallon tank that I'm setting up. Its the same foot print as your 50 breeder, just taller, (36Lx18Wx21H). I Emailed Roger Vitko of Tunze Usa and asked him about Streams in this tank. I wanted to run three at first...He said I would have the worlds smallest water park. He suggested one, and pointed out that the streams are VERY good at what they do...which is move ALOT of water gently. As susch they are pretty much geared for a tank just a little longer than ours. I decided to go w/ a closed loop. Check out www.oceansmotions.com . I went w/ the heavy duty 4 way OM unit. Paul, (the manufacturer) is AWESOME. His customer service is fantastic. He has already sent a free improvement to the unit I bought, (two nylon screws that secure two of the pieces together....he has now made them w/ hex key indents on the top, so you dont need to carefully use a 6 sided socket to remove them....) and when I spoke w/ him over the phone and mentioned I was having difficulty finding an adapter the size I needed for my pump to mate up w/ the OM unit...he sent me a new one. Free of Charge. It is more expensive than a Tunze stream, but for my needs, much better suited. HTH, Nick PS Welcome RS Choati! __________________ "Chaos, confusion, despair...my work is done here." ...Some guy named Murphy.... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!" Reef Sanctuary Knowledgebase (Answers to all your questions and then some!)

07-01-2004, 11:30 AM	#13 (permalink)
SZHTTM Serpent Star Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Davie, FL. (South Florida) Posts: 203 View Gallery Karma Komment	Check this out... This 50 gallon tank is running on two Tunze pumps with a single multicontroller. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...4/aquarium.htm Good Luck and Have Fun!!!;

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)