keeping montipora, how do i do it

[ati70cutlass]

hi, i love montipora and i cant keep it. i have tried hard and did as much research as i could without my brain splitting in half. after a while they die , like 1-5 days., my pavona lived a little longer but bit the dust too. my parameters are sal. 1.025, cal 440, mag 1300, alk 2.5-3.5 tends to jump cant get an exact daily usage down. lights are 250 watt xm 15k on for about 6 hours daily. tank is a 40 breeder with about 35lbs rock and 20lbs sand. i run 2 nano koralias and a hf20 thru a 40 breeder sump with macro and live rock. temp runs between 76-78 on average. ph is around 8. i try to do bi monthly water changes of 20 gallons of reefcrystals. i supplement as needed a few times a week

if my life were dependent on keeping monti id be a world of trouble. i dont know what in the world im doing wrong.

PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME!!!!

[ericinthebox]

I'm not sure but should'nt the alk be above 7?
Could be phosphate also?
lol,don't take my advice just taking a stab at it..

[BigAl07]

Hmm not sure what's wrong but I did edit the title of your thread bro. Remember this IS a family site


What are you supplementing and why?

How old are your bulbs?

what about NO2 & NO3 readings?

Temp?

[ati70cutlass]

sorry mass confusion in my mind. dont wanna offend. my alk of 2.5 is dkh german 4 being 12 on other scale. im sure my phosban could use a change tho. been in there for a long time. dont remember when i changed it last. nitrate and nitrite are at 0 pho checks in at 0 no amonian, no huge swoops, my bulbs arent even a month old. but this was several months ago i tried on 9 month old bulbs then too. OMG i need help. lfs told me it was cuz i dont have a calc reactor. or a kalk reactor

[BigAl07]

If "cal 440" is true and that's consistent then WHY would you need one?

[nicoleblkwidow]

I'm going to take a stab at it too.
I would bump up your photoperiod to around 8 or 10 hours a day.
Where are the montis in your tank? What do they do before they die? Brown, bleach or complete tissue loss?
Maybe it's late, but still not sure what the alk or kh reading is?
If your calc is 440 you should be fine without a reactor like Al says.
What kind of test kits are you using and how old are they?

[BLAKEJOHN]

Just to clarify for some that 2.86 meq/l is about 8dKH. 3.5 is aprox. 10 dKH. My guess is that you are having an Alkaline swing along with a possable PO4 issue. Maybe even too little light. I would also raise the temp up to 80. I am a beliver in weekly water changes. To me bi-monthly is a little too much.

Stablize the system and you shouldnt have a problem.

[ReefLady]

Where are you getting the corals from - and what light have they been kept in before you put them in your tank? A 40g breeder is a very shallow tank, and your lighting is pretty intense. My best guess would be that the lighting is too much of an initial "shock" - they need to be acclimated to this light.

Also, I don't think bi-monthy 50% water changes are the best option....I'd do more frequently, with a little less volume. I'd also look at what the current phosphate level. What type of bioload (fish) do you have in the tank? Any noticeable coral predators (sea slugs, small odd snails, etc)?

And back to the question that Al asked about this:

i supplement as needed a few times a week

What exactly are you supplementing? I can't think of anything that would need to be added a few times a week (except food).

[ati70cutlass]

i have 4 small fish, yellow tang, blue tang, 2 damsels all under 4 inches. only a few small crabs and a couple snails. i have been doing about 20 gallons ever two weeks for a while. i do have problems keeping my alk consistant. dont know how to gauge it to keep any consistancy. i know my light may be considered too much by some but the lps seem ok with it and it sits about 12 inchese above the tank. PO4 is undetectable with salifert kit. i just dont know what to do. maybe next time i will get some nylon screen to shield them for the first week or two

[ReefLady]

I don't think your light is "too much", but it may be the initial shock, depending on the lighting conditions the coral was under previously. If you're dealing with shipped coral, consider that it's probably been in total darkness for 24-30 hours.
I'd say when you first put a coral in your tank, to start it at the lowest position possible, possibly in shaded area (near a cave ledge or outcropping). If that's not an option then screen it somehow.
Hopefully the chem experts will chime in on how to keep the ca/alk/mg consistent; that definitely could be a contributing factor, but again, my best guess is bleaching due to intense lighting vs what the coral was "used to".
I'd be curious to see results if you light-accilmated a new specimen.

[Frankie]

Something is missing here. You should be able to keep them in the aquarium you are describing. I am thinking Nudi' or something. Even a possible pollutant your not aware of. Is this an old aquarium you used to build a reef in?

[ati70cutlass]

never seen any critters yet. i bought the tank used from a pet store that used them for fish only. had overflow already cut into the back. i used vinegar to clean it before i used it. my lps does just fine. it seems i have a black thumb somehow. i love monti so much and when i see it just makes me wanna give up cuz i know i cant keep it.

[BLAKEJOHN]

As for your parameters I would do this. Regardless if this is part of your problem. It still needs to be addressed IMO.

Get Alk, CA amd Mag test kits if you dont have them already
Get a calcium supplement (I used Seachems Reef Complete), Mag supplement (again I used Seachem Magnesium) and Baking soda.
These above will be used as boosters
Get a two part supplement such as ESV B-Ionic.

Do not add anything but regular water changes to your tank for a week or so to let everything settle down.
Run a test on ALK, CA and MAG
boost your levels up to: CA 420, MAG 1350, ALK 3.5 meq/l (if any of these are already above these numbers(with the exception of MAG) then wait till they fall first)

Bost your CA up to 420 one day then the next boost up the MAG if needed, then the next day boost up the ALK. Now ALK, CA and MAG are where they should be.
Wait a week and do a water change and test again to see how much you are using in a weeks time.
If your levels fall boost them back up again and start dosing the daily 2 part suplement. Start with the recommended dose per directions on the bottles for a week and retest.

If you levels fell again, boost them back up and then adjust your daily 2 part dosage. maybe add 5-10ml more of each per day (these are a balanced supplement so add the same amount of each part)

If your levels have now risen then lower the amount you dosed each day or dose every other day.

It may take a few weeks or so to figure it out but to me this is the easiest way without getting confusing numbers every day.

Baking soda directios. To be honest I dont remember which formulas are which. There are a few different ones. So it would be best to look them up online or maybe someone will post one here for you.

I hope this helps you some....

[ati70cutlass]

is there any way of keeping alk consistant. it seems my JUNK test kit shows i lose about 1.5 alk every few days. when i used my salifert kit tonight i was astonished. 4.7-5.1 meg/l is what i got i was blown away
so would i be better with a kalk reactor, im only using a 40 gallon breeder now . not my big setup im working on . but if im having these problems now then what happens when i get bigger

[BLAKEJOHN]

If your alk is reading that high I would retest imediatley and if it still reads high I would try another test kit. If it is indeed that high The only way to lower it is with time (just wait and stop any alkaline supplements). As for stability thats something your going to need to figure out. I mentioned above a way to figure it out but it will take patience and time.