Advice about adding a LMB...

[TucsonSandy]

Hi Ya'll. Have not been here for awhile!
Long message... but I'm hoping the more info... the better you can respond. Thanks!

I would like to add a Lawnmower Blenny... to eat green hair algae and, well, they are cute little buggers.

Tankmates:

1 perc clownfish (can't pair her... tried)
1 yellow clown goby
1 royal gramma
1 firefish (hides in the back all the time)
1 mandarin (nice and chubby)

2 cleaner shrimp
2 pepperment shrimp

I'll spare you the list of corals for now, eh?

I'm concerned however if the LMB will be a good tankmate... especially since I have a small tank and it has a Mandarine Goby. The Mandarine is fat and happy and just flotes around as she pleases. No one bother's her and vice versa.

I have a 24 gal Aquapod. It has lots of live rock and corals. (Link to TucsonSandy at photbucket.com... at end of message for pics). It has a modified hood for more lighting and the addition of a chiller...

Folks have sometimes commented that it is "overstocked", but I've not had problems in the last 6 months. It actually has two fewer fish than before. (Coral Beauty and Jawfish are no longer in the tank). I do frequent water changes, etc. It's been established for about 1 1/2 years.

The current fish (and invert) inhabitants get along just fine. Everyone has a space and no one is a "bully".

I also have a 3 gal "pod" tank that is thriving. It exists to keep my Mandarin well fed. She also eats prepared foods soaked with selcon. (I mention this to avoid the discussion of a Mandarin in a 24 gal.)

The fish that sort of "runs" the tank more than anyone else - surprisingly - is a Royal Gramma. She does not hide out under rocks, etc. at all. She swims about all the time. She does scoot under mushrooms to sleep...

The clownfish and clown goby sometimes "snuggle" on the clam or toadstool together. Otherwise the clownfish hangs out in the torch coral and the clown goby just sits and watches her. Very cute.

I digress:

So... what do you think? Too much of a risk that the Lawnmower Blenny will upset the balance? Maybe be a bully to the mandarine? Or problems with the Royal Gramma being the "queen" of the tank?

My greatest concern (and the reason I've not bought the cute fellow...) is that it's really hard to remove a fish from an established, well stocked, 24 gal. tank. Once it's in there I'd have to tear the place apart to get 'em out.

Any experiences out there with these particular fish in the smaller environment?

Thanks


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[Octoman]

A 24g will not be large enough to provide enough algae to support a LMB if it does not eat prepared foods.

[Jeremy0322]

Not only that but you may be loaded over (bio load) if you add another fish to a 24 gallon. I think its time for an upgrade!

[Octoman]

And yes, they can be quite aggressive, especially in a smaller tank.

[TucsonSandy]

Okay. That's what I needed to hear. I kind of had an idea it might not work. That's why I've waited before purchasing it. Thanks! S

[BigAl07]

Sandy you are WAY over loaded for your size tank. It's much better you address the problem and not the symptoms. We need to work on the bioload in a BIG way!!

[Octoman]

Are you having issues with hair algae? That is a sign of excess nutrients, which could result from too much bioload.

[TucsonSandy]

(Answer in the following three replies).... Please bear with me and if you can't - scroll to the bottom to see the recent pics. That could save a lot of reading. THANKS.

YES....Green hair algae problem... which isn't very "ugly" but is growing fast and trying to overgrow some of the corals (zoo's, a nice mushroom, etc.).

There is bioload... but the more serious problem is that I feed too much. Can't seem to help myself. I do water changes once or twice a week. (Either two small or one about 8 gal).

My filtration is modified (larger) pumps to pump water through the back fuge & chiller. The fuge is full of L/R. I usually place filter floss in the top to catch excess waste when feeding and doing water changes. I've not had any problems really... everyone is happy/healthy... except the green hair algae which I KNOW is excess nutrients. (I'll list those too if you want to suggest a feeding regimen schedule.) THANKS again.

I wish I had enough knowledge to give you a comprehensive list of what's in the tank. I know some of it... Which I'll list here. What I'll do is put up a few current photo's. You will be able to see my corals from that and maybe even help me update my list of what's in the tank. I'm considering selling it rather than upgrading.

Next reply: What's in the Tank - Partial list & pics
followed by pics.

[TucsonSandy]

What's in the tank & pics:
Feel free to help me make my list more accurate if you spot something in the pics.

List & Photos:

30+ pounds of live rock and rubble,
Maxi-jet 1200 with hydor flo,
Maxi-jet 900 with hydor flo,
Modified Hood with Three-40 watt compact
Current Prime 1/15 Chiller
PinPoint Ph Monitor
Titanium Heaters, etc.

(Partial List of Tank Contents)

1 Clownfish
1 Mandarin Goby
1 Firefish
1 Yellow Clown Goby
1 Royal Gramma

2 Cleaner Shrimp
2 Pepperment Shrimp
Various Micro-Hermits and Snails

1 Crocea Clam
1 Pearl Bubble Coral
1 Small Sun Polyp (with 8-10 heads)
1 Large Feather Duster
7-10 heads of Green Torch Coral
Bubble gum zoas, pink
Green Bay Packer zoas, Green,
GSP on small shell
Toad stool leather
Candy Canes, bright green is called kryptonite.
Small rock with a combination of a small monti, 2 mushrooms, and zoas in middle.

Superman mushrooms on large rock.

Other mushrooms are just green, brown, or red throughout the tank.

Sometimes you will see on the rock with the brown mushrooms, little black feather dusters.

I will attempt to copy the pics. If I do not have success, please visit List & Photos:

30+ pounds of live rock and rubble,
Maxi-jet 1200 with hydor flo,
Maxi-jet 900 with hydor flo,
Modified Hood with Three-40 watt compact
Current Prime 1/15 Chiller
PinPoint Ph Monitor
Titanium Heaters, etc.

(Partial List of Tank Contents)

1 Clownfish
1 Mandarin Goby
1 Firefish
1 Yellow Clown Goby
1 Royal Gramma
2 Cleaner Shrimp
2 Pepperment Shrimp
Various Micro-Hermits and Snails

1 Crocea Clam
1 Pearl Bubble Coral
1 Small Sun Polyp (with 8-10 heads)
1 Large Feather Duster
7-10 heads of Green Torch Coral
Bubble gum zoas, pink
Green Bay Packer zoas, Green,
GSP on small shell
Toad stool leather
Candy Canes, bright green is called kryptonite.
Small rock with a combination of a small monti, 2 mushrooms, and zoas in middle.

Superman mushrooms on large rock.

Other mushrooms are just green, brown, or red throughout the tank.

Sometimes you will see on the rock with the brown mushrooms, little black feather dusters.

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

That's TucsonSandy, Recent Pics on Photobucket

[TucsonSandy]

[BigAl07]

Over Feeding is indeed a problem but that tank is heavily stocked. The general rule of thumb (at least for a the year or so) is 1" of Adult sized fish per 5 gallons of TANK volume. Let's *which is wrong* assume you have a true 24g of water (way wrong). That gives you around a total of 5" of ADULT sized fish to work with. Total of 5"

Clownfish (just guessing it's one of the SMALLER ones) 3 1/2"
Mandarin Goby 4"
FireFish 3"
Yellow Clown Goby 1 1/2"
Royal Gramma 3"

Ok this is saying you have "Potential" for 15" of Adult Fish. For fun let's say they are young and 1/2 adult size. That's 7 1/2" of fish where you only want/need 5". This is well before you add over feeding, potentially feeding with Nitrate/Phosphate heavy Foods, or the fact that the tank probably only has about 30g of usable volume.

Do you see where you're already behind the 8-ball and just getting started?

[TucsonSandy]

What I feed: DON'T FLAME: Suggest! I KNOW I'm way overfeeding this tank. What would you do instead?

I feed a little in the morning and in the evening, but I also target feed. Remember I have floss in the overflow to catch excess... or I catch it with a net.

I rotate feeding:

A mix of thawed Omega Brine Shrimp & Spirulina Brine Shrimp. (Daily)

Live hatched baby brine shrimp about once a week for corals & Mandarin.

Once or twice a week I put a tiny pinch of Formula One or Spirulina flake for the Clownfish.

Ocassional Mysis Shrimp (Target Cleaner Shrimp with Shrimp on tweezers to keep 'em from stealing from the Sun Coral).

Sometimes the smaller version of Mysis for the Sun Coral (Target with pipette & let the other fish steal). The Mandarin comes along and "steals" the brine from the Sun Coral - makes me happy 'cause he's eating AND the Sun Coral benefits.

I "used" to take the sun coral out to feed every other day. It worked very well but became tiresome. I did this to reduce "excess feeding" by targeting the coral. The cleaner shrimp would just jump on and pick out the food unless I left the sun polyp in the feeding jar for a few hours. (With heating, & air circ.).

Now I target it every other day with cyclops or cylopeeze. because the cleaner shrimps could care less and the Sun Coral gets to eat most of it... or the other corals.

If I'm NOT feeding cyclopeeze to the Sun Coral or Hatched Brine... then every few days I'll feed the corals Phytofeast or Marine Snow in small amounts.

I sometimes target the pearl bubble coral with brine using a pippette. It catches all the food and consumes.

Finally, about once a week I go through a filtration process from my 3 gal "pod" tank to replenish pods for the Mandarine in the main tank.

[TucsonSandy]

No worries. I'm no longer considering adding any fish or anything else. The tank is too full. Yes... it is a 24 gal AquaPod with Ton's of LR. So there is much less water volume. It has been running for a a year and 6 months with this bioload.

Please help me figure out a feeding schedule. (What/when).

And (I shiver): Do you suggest I remove stuff?

Everyone seems happy and healthy. I just do a lot of extra filtering and water changes.

[BigAl07]

All I can really do is offer advice in the form of how I feed my tanks and what I feed.

I have a 10g Frag Tank, a 12g NanoCube Reef tank and a 90g Reef tank. All three tanks are fed once every other day or so. I feed only enough to remain in suspension for no more than 5 minutes. I feed Rod's Frozen Food thawed and added to the tank via turkey baster or if I am out of town I package the Rods in "ice cubes" that the vacation helps just drops into the tank.

Take into account I don't have any corals that MUST be hand fed but I do have some that LIKE to be directly feed. I still use Rods but give them a direct feeding maybe once a week at the most. They also get some food during the normal feeding. I have a heavy CUC which helps.

I use RO/DI water for everything and do approximately 20% +/- water change once a week.

I hope this helps some.