Phosphates in Gelatin?

ScottT1980 · 05-09-2004, 12:22 PM

I want to add some gelatin to my fish mush recipe so that it will "hold together" a bit better, but I don't want to add a huge amount of phosphates into the system (as the mush has enough as is). Any ideas on whether or not this should be a concern. I have done some goole searches with no success...

Thanks
Scott T.

Scooterman · 05-09-2004, 12:50 PM

My thought without knowing for sure I'd say be careful with this as your probably right on the phosphates.

ScottT1980 · 05-09-2004, 01:00 PM

I was at first worried about it being a phospholipid but it claims to have no fat so it can't be a lipid. In fact, it only shows 6g of protein, and the whole "serving" is 7 grams. Most amino acids don't have phosphates although they can be bind them (if I remember correctly). Really, I am just worried about what is in that 1 gram...

Scooterman · 05-09-2004, 01:04 PM

Humm, yea, to me it would be like a magnet, but to be safe I'd wait to see if you can get some expert information, maybe boomer or post over RC in the chemistry expert forums by Randy, they seem to reply rather quicly during the week.

NaH2O · 05-09-2004, 02:42 PM

Scott, since gelatin is made of animal products, I would say that phosphates are present. At what concentration? I don't know, but why introduce more to the system for convience (I assume you are trying to make the mush easier to use) - when the phosphate input is something we can control to a point?

Here is a link on how gelatin is made: http://www.gmap-gelatin.com/how_made.html

ScottT1980 · 05-09-2004, 02:56 PM

Hmm...

Well, now my brain is getting strained a bit. The protein is collagen and I still don't think PO4 would be derived from the collagen unless this collagen can bind the phosphates. Regardless, I posted something over at RC on the chemistry forum so I suppose I will be edumacated within a day or so...

I would assume that the mystery 1 gram is where the phosphates will be found.

I guess I like convenience and because I feed my tank no more than once every other day with a small amount of mush, I am not so worried about a moderate increase in phosphates. Also, I am trying to find something that is more palpable and easier to put on a fishing hook for my red-lipped blenny. I know it sounds crazy but I just don't want to tear down my tank...

Take er easy
Scott T.

ScottT1980 · 05-09-2004, 03:02 PM

BTW thanks Nikki, great link! Probably more than most (minus us geeks) want to know about gelatin production.

Curtswearing · 05-10-2004, 10:00 AM

I'm never eating Jello again......yuck!!!

I can't find this info as it relates to cattle or horses. As a result, I'm using human info.

Quote:

Phosphorus has more functions than any other mineral in your body. Eighty to eighty five percent of all the phosphorus in your body is in your bones and teeth in the form of calcium phosphate. The 1 1/2 - 2 pounds of phosphorus in your body helps to keep your bones and teeth strong. Phosphorus is important to your bones for another reason. Phosphorus is vital to collagen production and bone is 3/4 collagen. Tendons, ligaments, cartilage, skin, and eyes, are composed greatly of collagen. Without phosphorus, your body could not make any of the above vital connective tissues and organs.

Osteoporosis in woman is currently being treated with ground deer antlers to increase their phosphorus and calcium intake. However, a lot of processing is taking place in gelatin factories that isn't being done on the deer antlers so it is unclear how much phosphorus is being removed.

I think your just going to have to get some RO/DI water, take a baseline phosphate reading and then let jello soak for an hour and then retest the water.

ScottT1980 · 05-10-2004, 10:12 AM

Thanks Curt!

Here is a thread I posted in the RC in the chemistry forum. RHF has given me a bit of an edumacation.

Take er easy
Scott T.

Curtswearing · 05-10-2004, 10:16 AM

Thanks for posting the link. Now I'm edumacated a little too.

Scooterman · 05-10-2004, 10:23 AM

Nice Post, I thinkk he will get some valuable information.

NaH2O · 05-10-2004, 10:36 AM

Awesome, Scott. BTW, me too: I know just enough chemistry to know nothing. I was looking in my biochem book last night at collagen. I think I should go back to school......(I must have been partying alot during biochem class

)

ScottT1980 · 05-10-2004, 10:47 AM

Yup, it just shows how dangerous it can be to only know half the story, and when it comes to chemistry, I barely even know half...

Take er easy
Scott T.

Scooterman · 05-10-2004, 10:54 AM

Well I guess I'm lucky to have people like here to rely on because I don't know anything past what I've learned here. LOL

05-09-2004, 12:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
ScottT1980 Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,485 View Gallery Karma Komment	Phosphates in Gelatin? I want to add some gelatin to my fish mush recipe so that it will "hold together" a bit better, but I don't want to add a huge amount of phosphates into the system (as the mush has enough as is). Any ideas on whether or not this should be a concern. I have done some goole searches with no success... Thanks Scott T. __________________ My Tank

05-09-2004, 12:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
Scooterman Elegance coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Posts: 1,239 View Gallery Karma Komment	My thought without knowing for sure I'd say be careful with this as your probably right on the phosphates. __________________ Scott Ardoin (Ard-Dwan)

05-09-2004, 01:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
ScottT1980 Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,485 View Gallery Karma Komment	I was at first worried about it being a phospholipid but it claims to have no fat so it can't be a lipid. In fact, it only shows 6g of protein, and the whole "serving" is 7 grams. Most amino acids don't have phosphates although they can be bind them (if I remember correctly). Really, I am just worried about what is in that 1 gram... __________________ My Tank

05-09-2004, 01:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
Scooterman Elegance coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Posts: 1,239 View Gallery Karma Komment	Humm, yea, to me it would be like a magnet, but to be safe I'd wait to see if you can get some expert information, maybe boomer or post over RC in the chemistry expert forums by Randy, they seem to reply rather quicly during the week. __________________ Scott Ardoin (Ard-Dwan)

05-09-2004, 02:42 PM	#5 (permalink)
NaH2O Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 1,929 View Gallery Karma Komment	Scott, since gelatin is made of animal products, I would say that phosphates are present. At what concentration? I don't know, but why introduce more to the system for convience (I assume you are trying to make the mush easier to use) - when the phosphate input is something we can control to a point? Here is a link on how gelatin is made: http://www.gmap-gelatin.com/how_made.html __________________ ~Nikki~

05-09-2004, 02:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
ScottT1980 Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,485 View Gallery Karma Komment	Hmm... Well, now my brain is getting strained a bit. The protein is collagen and I still don't think PO4 would be derived from the collagen unless this collagen can bind the phosphates. Regardless, I posted something over at RC on the chemistry forum so I suppose I will be edumacated within a day or so... I would assume that the mystery 1 gram is where the phosphates will be found. I guess I like convenience and because I feed my tank no more than once every other day with a small amount of mush, I am not so worried about a moderate increase in phosphates. Also, I am trying to find something that is more palpable and easier to put on a fishing hook for my red-lipped blenny. I know it sounds crazy but I just don't want to tear down my tank... Take er easy Scott T. __________________ My Tank

05-09-2004, 03:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
ScottT1980 Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,485 View Gallery Karma Komment	BTW thanks Nikki, great link! Probably more than most (minus us geeks) want to know about gelatin production. __________________ My Tank

05-10-2004, 10:12 AM	#9 (permalink)
ScottT1980 Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,485 View Gallery Karma Komment	Thanks Curt! Here is a thread I posted in the RC in the chemistry forum. RHF has given me a bit of an edumacation. Take er easy Scott T. __________________ My Tank

05-10-2004, 10:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
Curtswearing Golden Moray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,597 View Gallery Karma Komment	Thanks for posting the link. Now I'm edumacated a little too. __________________ In memory of Fluffy, please pause before hitting enter---being nice is free. Click for ReefKeeping FAQ'S Click for Product Reviews Click for Photo ID Gallery http://curtcpapfs.com/downloads/1Curt.jpg

05-10-2004, 10:23 AM	#11 (permalink)
Scooterman Elegance coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Posts: 1,239 View Gallery Karma Komment	Nice Post, I thinkk he will get some valuable information. __________________ Scott Ardoin (Ard-Dwan)

05-10-2004, 10:36 AM	#12 (permalink)
NaH2O Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 1,929 View Gallery Karma Komment	Awesome, Scott. BTW, me too: I know just enough chemistry to know nothing. I was looking in my biochem book last night at collagen. I think I should go back to school......(I must have been partying alot during biochem class ) __________________ ~Nikki~

05-10-2004, 10:47 AM	#13 (permalink)
ScottT1980 Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,485 View Gallery Karma Komment	Yup, it just shows how dangerous it can be to only know half the story, and when it comes to chemistry, I barely even know half... Take er easy Scott T. __________________ My Tank

05-10-2004, 10:54 AM	#14 (permalink)
Scooterman Elegance coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lafayette, Louisiana Posts: 1,239 View Gallery Karma Komment	Well I guess I'm lucky to have people like here to rely on because I don't know anything past what I've learned here. LOL __________________ Scott Ardoin (Ard-Dwan)

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