Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

[astiesi]

I've got the 14g BC as well, if you could come up with a clean, easy way to do this I would love to hear about it!

[slakker]

Here's what I'm thinking... I've put in a 75 W mod which extends the light farther back into the tank hood. My wife has one of those "sun light" meters that I got her from the garden centre. I'm going to put it in the back centre portion to see how much light actually reaches that area. I've removed the wet/dry filter, etc. so the chmaber is empty. But the original chamber has a lip for the drip tray for the wet/dry so I should be able to shape a single side screen to slip that in place. It's probably only going to be about 8" to 10" square of screen surface.

But if the light reading is good, then I'll put a screen there to see how well it'll work.

[SantaMonica]

jski: Hanging the screen below the pipe: Not sure if that would work. By inserting the screen up into the pipe, it "wicks" the water out evenly across the screen. If you rely on just how much water comes out by itself, it would all come out at the first part of the pipe. But it's easy to try. Take a pic and let us know. Return pump will work as long as the pipe can handle the flow. Show a pic of your setup now, and the pump specs.

slakker: A 14 only needs 28 sq in. (because in the hood it would be single sided)... that 4 X 7 inches... smaller than the 8 X 10 space. If you put a bright light on a 4 X 7 your N and P will be gone soon. A larger 8 X 10 size doesn't work faster, it just allows longer time between cleanings (although once a week is minimum).

On some nano hoods I've seen, you might have to cut a hatch in the top in order to set a light down on top of it.

[jski711]

actually i was still going to "insert" the screen in pvc pipe. i actually just got back from home depot and got a dremel and all the material i will need. i was going to T off my return directly into a 1" id pipe with a ball valve and then hang the screen somehow directly onto/into the pvc. any ideas on the hanging part santamonica since you seem too be pretty knowledgable about this stuff. any help is appreciated. i'll have to get some pics soon. im off to work now..... stupid 2nd shift. im working 7 days a week right now and it sucks. thanks for the help though.

Jake

[jski711]

I have a mag 12 return pump fwiw santamonica. Do the screens from inland come cut exactly the size you ask for or are they only certain sizes? Thanks again this is a very interesting thread!!!

Jake

[SantaMonica]

Ok if you T off with a valve, that will work. Remember to not turn off the return pump more than an few minutes, so the screen will not dry out (or, manually wet the screen if you need to).

Since you will not be setting the screen at the bottom, you'll need to tie-wrap it into the pipe so it can hang down over your sump. It can stay attached to the pipe, that's fine. The IA screens are cut to the size you ask for, so get bigger than you need and cut it down.

[jski711]

Sounds good. I'll be starting this project tonight when I get home at 2 a.m. There's nothing to watch on tv at that time so this will gimme something to do! Thanks again for the advice!!!!!

Jake

[cheeks69]

A very ingenious way of exporting nutrients, love the write up and the photos !

This is the OPPOSITE of what a skimmer does; a skimmer removes food particles (so corals starve) and then leaves the nitrate and phosphate in the water so you have to use other methods to get the nitrate and phosphate out.

I have to disagree here...lol
A skimmer removes dissolved organics so you are removing both nitrate and phosphate. Also the algae take up these dissolved nutrients so the skimmer isn't the only one that's taking food away from your corals.

Randy-Holmes Farley:

2. Skimming is another big winner, in my opinion. Not only does it reduce organic forms of phosphate, but it reduces other nutrients and increases gas exchange. Gas exchange is an issue that many people don’t recognize, but that can contribute to pH problems.

[SantaMonica]

jski be sure to take pics before during and after. And take pics of the screen each day, as well as N and P.

cheeks I'm glad you like the info, but I think you are confusing organic with inorganic. A skimmer removes organics including forms of N and P that are bound to organics. All this is food, by the way. But what your test kit measures is inorganic (has no carbon) N and P. A skimmer does not touch this, and it builds up in your tank unless you take it out. N is removed with rocks, DSB, coil denitrator, polyfilters, vodka, macros and turf. P is removed with GFO, vodka, polyfilters, macros and turf. Of all these however, only turf removes both and is risk-free and cost-free.

[SantaMonica]

Week 1 Screen Growth

Here's some results for the turf bucket that was built for the main (not nano) build thread. Below are the pics of the screen, day by day, for the first seven days. I had sanded both sides of the screen, and then "seeded" the screen by rubbing green algae HARD into it. After water flowed over it, only a couple visible specs remained (the rest are invisible spores) that grew a little by the Day 2 pic. It should be noted that this new bucket is working side-by-side on the same tank that my original test bucket is on:




This means that the new screen is sharing nutrients and competing directly against my established screen that I got pre-grown from IA over a month ago. Also, N and P were already zero, so nutrients were hard to come by. So this new screen had little to grow on, unlike the nano. Nevertheless, these pics show the growth progress you MIGHT expect if you decide to grow your own screen from scratch:


Day 2; the specs from seeding are visible:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay2.jpg

Day 3:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay3.jpg

Day 4; Brown diatoms have coated the screen:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay4.jpg

Day 5: Green hair algae specs are starting to lengthen:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay5.jpg

Day 6:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay6.jpg

Day 7: Some green hair is over two inches long:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay7.jpg

Day 7 Closeup; Some brown spots are lengthening, and some green hair is flowing past the bottom; And although it's hard to see, most of the holes are still open:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scre...ay7closeup.jpg

Day 8:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay8.jpg

Day 9; Some brown spots are getting thick, and some green areas are starting to cover up other areas. Almost all holes are grown over; time to clean!

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay9.jpg

Day 9 Screen Removed; Note the light colored spots on the bottom half. These are probably copepods eating the algae, since I did not clean and freshwater-rinse in over a week:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/ScreenBuildDay9out.jpg

Day 9 Closeup of Spots:

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scre...dDay9spots.jpg

Day 9 Removing the green algae by hand first (used toothbruth second):


Day 9 Harvest of first week; Remember that this screen is getting what nutrients are leftover from my other screen:


Day 9 After Cleaning; Note I cleaned both sides, which you only do the first cleaning (thereafter you only clean one side at a time):

Hi Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Scre...dDay9after.jpg


So that takes us through the first cleaning cycle of a new screen. Was surprised to see the light spots on the screen since I never saw any on my established screen, but then this new screen is so thin right now that any spots become easily visible. You should not go more than a week between cleaning and a freshwater rinse (freshwater will kill the pods) like I just did; I just wanted to get a decent amount of algae to harvest so you would be able to see it.

Interesting that all the spots are on the lower half of the screen, which in my bucket is the part that stays underwater more often, since the bucket fills partially as the pump runs. (It shouldn't do this, but I have not connected a ball valve to the pump yet, so I can't slow it down). So apparently, the copepods can't survive well when the water flows away, leaving just air. This is a good reason to not submerge your screen, and also to consider having a timer on the pump to let the screen dry out for 30 or 60 seconds between "waves".

On the cleaning, note that I took off all the green, but left the brown. You always want to do this, in order to prepare the screen for developing real red/brown turf later.

Note on "Day 9 Screen Removed", that there is a bit more coverage on the right than on the left. That's because most of the flow has been going on the right side. But as you can see it does not change the coverage that much.

[SubRosa]

I have a question regarding the choice of species of algae for the screen.If the red brown turf grows more slowly than the green algae by what mechanism does it remove more N and P?Growth is the conversion of nutrients into biomass, so it stands to reason that the species which grows fastest absorbs the most nutrients.If the turf isn't using the nutrients to produce more biomass where are they going?TANSTAAFL!

John

[SantaMonica]

"Size" of growing should not be confused with how "dense" it grows (i.e., mass). Chaeto, caulerpa ang green hair/sllime are all mostly water, so they they appear to grow a lot, but in terms of nutrients, they are taking in little. Real stiff (like carpet) red/brown turf has very little water (after all, it lives above the waterline), and thus it is made of almost pure nutrients. So if you dried out the same physical size of all these algaes, the turf would not shrink that much, but the others would almost disappear.

[jski711]

ok my build pics to come soon but how do i know if i dremeled a big enough hole. it seems to kind of squirt out a bit. is this normal without the screen in or should i widen the hole a bit?? thanks,

Jake

[SantaMonica]

You can't try it without the screen, so put the screen in and see how the flow is. Sometimes you will get more water flow near the end of the spraybar, than at the beginning of the spraybar where it connects to the tubing. Basically this is not a big deal since it's somewhat self correcting: The higher flow area will start getting more (or you will allow more) algae up near the slot which will slow the flow there and allow more water to be supplied to the lesser areas. But if you want to just go ahead and adjust it now, one thing that helps is to widen the slot at that beginning section. Also you could glue an extra section of screen onto the screen (thus making it double layered) in the high flow section, which will provide the same effect. But try it first, and post a pic of the flow.

[jski711]

well i don't have the screen yet. im going to order from inland and get the ball moving right away!!! here are my pictures of the build, it literally took all of 45 minutes once i had the materials. first my supplies.



second i took the pvc and cut a slit with a dremel that i bought and will probably never use again, lol. attached a ball valve and a push on fitting.


not much too do after that but install. i just noticed i bought 65w equivelant pc bulbs but they are 2700k and not sure if i should buy different ones so somebody chime in if you think these were a bad or good choice. and there you have the finished product. i will be ordering the screen today from inland aquatics and it will be here tomorrow!! woohoo.


when i do install the screen how long should i let it run before cleaning it?? thanks and i got my fingers crossed on this one.

Jake