Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything - Page 3

DeepBlue · 08-18-2008, 01:05 PM

I am very intregued with this and very impressed with the detail you have put into this thread. Kudos to you and Thank you! I am definately planning on setting a system like this, but like Disciple882542 had said, I would also continue to run my sump the way I have been as I also feel that the more, the better. Also, it would serve as a backup in case of a turf crash.

SantaMonica · 08-18-2008, 01:08 PM

Looks like the flow is covering more than half the screen; it does not have to be strong flow all over... even a weak flow grows well. Turn the pump off? No way... some algae would die. If you are referring to "pulsing", you'd need to use a wave timer on your pump. Mine's currently 60 seconds on, 60 seconds off. I'm using the JBJ Ocean Pulse Duo timer ($50 new). Note: this timer has a quirk: if you cut the power to it, then restore it, it keeps the pump "on"; to get the on-off-on function working again, you have to turn the dial to the left and back again. But you can just try your screen without a timer.

Your screen is a bit too big for that light. Of course it does not hurt anything to not have strong light, it's just kind of a waste of screen space. From how I see it in the pic, you have room for several lights, and most importantly, on both sides. You can't have too much light, even 400W halides on both sides. But, to just get started, aim your current one at the middle of the strong flow. But light is the most important. And the lower the K value (the more red), the better. You can also use plant-grow lights.

Disciple: Good idea, never thought about a spade.

SantaMonica · 08-18-2008, 01:12 PM

Deepblue: Glad you like the concept. For just nitrate and phosphate removal, you can certainly keep your other stuff around. It's only when you are trying to increase food for your corals that you have to look at turning off the skimmer. I keep my skimmer on the shelf and can hook it up in about two minutes should I need to.

Disciple882542 · 08-18-2008, 02:30 PM

here's a pic of how mine looks after a couple of weeks

Fish Crazy · 08-18-2008, 02:41 PM

This is very interesting - do you run a UV sterilizer as well?

SantaMonica · 08-18-2008, 05:10 PM

If you mean me, no I don't. I have one though.

That eggcrate is cool... maybe you can up the light and get more.

Varga · 08-18-2008, 05:26 PM

I have a piece of egg crate just like that. the issue is the crate releases the algae and it ends up in my tank

Varga · 08-18-2008, 05:33 PM

ok folks, since I plugged the algae farm in, my skimmer has been acting out. every couple of hours it stops working completely, which is something it has never done. related?

SantaMonica · 08-18-2008, 05:48 PM

Mine stopped working for two days when I first hooked up the bucket, because of the ingredients of the plastics used. It got going again, but gave extra nutrients to the screen to get it started. That's when I just left the skimmer unplugged. Measure your N and P now, and each day.

smkndrgn142 · 08-18-2008, 06:28 PM

thanks for the great info! I've always wanted to incorporate an algae scrubber into my system...I'm glad you posted this before I started my sump/fuge build. I've never liked the idea of skimming or UV, they just remove too much stuff that should be kept in your system...

Varga · 08-18-2008, 06:38 PM

so this could really one day lead to me unplugging my skimmer?

Octoman · 08-18-2008, 06:51 PM

I am intrigued as well...

Varga, I would recommend one of those CFL floods instead that has the bulb inside of a glass housing/reflector. You don't want that curlycue bulb or the electronics inside of the base directly exposed to the saltwater spray coming off of that thing.

SantaMonica · 08-18-2008, 09:55 PM

snkndrgn: Hope you can make use of it!

varga: Depending what you mean; at least you'll get the feel for it for two days or so.

SubRosa · 08-18-2008, 09:59 PM

The one negative that I'm aware of with turf scrubbers hasn't been mentioned yet.Walter Adey, who is generally credited with inventing the system noticed a significant yellowing of the water which he attributed to organic byproducts of the algae's metabolism.GAC will remove it as will additional water changes, but it's no free lunch.

John

SantaMonica · 08-18-2008, 10:45 PM

Concerning yellowing, this has something to do with when and how the algae is scraped ("harvested"), and also what type of algae is growing. It's also something that folks years ago experienced, but most folks nowadays don't. I think it's the harvesting that is making the difference. It's pretty well known that if you just leave the algae to grow and grow, that you'll definitely get yellowing. After all, the yellowing is coming from the chlorophyll's which I believe are green-plant based. And if you don't harvest, the green algae will overtake the brown/red. But the actual turf we want is not green, it's brown/red. So I believe this is why the current group of turf users get very high filtering (not needing any help), and no yellowing.

However another "discovery" has come about by sheer chance (by user "florida joe" on one of the forums), resulting from the physical size of the unit. The original units were big and bulkly and not easily disassembled, and thus most folks back then would just scrape the turf while in-place. Well, it looks like this caused a rupturing of algal cells, causing the contents to be reintroduced to the tank water. The current batch of small scrubbers, including my turf bucket, requires you to take the screen off and clean it in the sink with running tap water. So that problem is solved. I know I have zero yellowing in mine. But if yellowing did occur for whatever reason, a monthly dose of carbon (that you need anyway to remove allelopathics) will fix it up. But the removing of the green, weekly, done in the sink, should eliminate the yellowing by itself.

08-18-2008, 01:05 PM	#31 (permalink)
DeepBlue Pistol Shrimp Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 268 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin I am very intregued with this and very impressed with the detail you have put into this thread. Kudos to you and Thank you! I am definately planning on setting a system like this, but like Disciple882542 had said, I would also continue to run my sump the way I have been as I also feel that the more, the better. Also, it would serve as a backup in case of a turf crash. __________________ Kris ___________________________ 38 Gal. Corner Bowfront 64# Live Rock 60# DSB ProClear 75 Wet/Dry converted to sump w/Catalina 2200 pump 10 Gal. Fuge ASM G3 Skimmer Sun Pod 150 HQI w/ moonlights and 64 watt PC Actinics 2 - Hydor Korallia Circulation Heads (1 - #2 and 1 - #3) Yellow Tang, Blue Damsel, 2 Ocellaris Clowns, 2 Green Chromis, Citron Goby, White Sebae Anemone, Crocea Clam, Frilly Mushrooms, Green Ricordia, Acropora, Montipora, Zooanthids, Serpant Star, Cleaner Shrimp and Snails

08-18-2008, 01:08 PM	#32 (permalink)
SantaMonica Scopas Tang Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 498 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin Looks like the flow is covering more than half the screen; it does not have to be strong flow all over... even a weak flow grows well. Turn the pump off? No way... some algae would die. If you are referring to "pulsing", you'd need to use a wave timer on your pump. Mine's currently 60 seconds on, 60 seconds off. I'm using the JBJ Ocean Pulse Duo timer ($50 new). Note: this timer has a quirk: if you cut the power to it, then restore it, it keeps the pump "on"; to get the on-off-on function working again, you have to turn the dial to the left and back again. But you can just try your screen without a timer. Your screen is a bit too big for that light. Of course it does not hurt anything to not have strong light, it's just kind of a waste of screen space. From how I see it in the pic, you have room for several lights, and most importantly, on both sides. You can't have too much light, even 400W halides on both sides. But, to just get started, aim your current one at the middle of the strong flow. But light is the most important. And the lower the K value (the more red), the better. You can also use plant-grow lights. Disciple: Good idea, never thought about a spade.

08-18-2008, 01:12 PM	#33 (permalink)
SantaMonica Scopas Tang Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 498 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin Deepblue: Glad you like the concept. For just nitrate and phosphate removal, you can certainly keep your other stuff around. It's only when you are trying to increase food for your corals that you have to look at turning off the skimmer. I keep my skimmer on the shelf and can hook it up in about two minutes should I need to.

08-18-2008, 02:30 PM	#34 (permalink)
Disciple882542 Tuxedo Urchin Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 280 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin here's a pic of how mine looks after a couple of weeks __________________ Job 11:13-20

08-18-2008, 02:41 PM	#35 (permalink)
Fish Crazy Cabbage Leather Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 360 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin This is very interesting - do you run a UV sterilizer as well? __________________ Reefing Rocks Check out our 180 project http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...obsession.html

08-18-2008, 05:10 PM	#36 (permalink)
SantaMonica Scopas Tang Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 498 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin If you mean me, no I don't. I have one though. That eggcrate is cool... maybe you can up the light and get more.

08-18-2008, 05:26 PM	#37 (permalink)
Varga Manta Ray Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,355 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin I have a piece of egg crate just like that. the issue is the crate releases the algae and it ends up in my tank __________________ Varga's Cube http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...on-cube-5.html

08-18-2008, 05:33 PM	#38 (permalink)
Varga Manta Ray Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,355 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin ok folks, since I plugged the algae farm in, my skimmer has been acting out. every couple of hours it stops working completely, which is something it has never done. related? __________________ Varga's Cube http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...on-cube-5.html

08-18-2008, 05:48 PM	#39 (permalink)
SantaMonica Scopas Tang Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 498 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin Mine stopped working for two days when I first hooked up the bucket, because of the ingredients of the plastics used. It got going again, but gave extra nutrients to the screen to get it started. That's when I just left the skimmer unplugged. Measure your N and P now, and each day.

08-18-2008, 06:28 PM	#40 (permalink)
smkndrgn142 Star Polyps Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 156 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin thanks for the great info! I've always wanted to incorporate an algae scrubber into my system...I'm glad you posted this before I started my sump/fuge build. I've never liked the idea of skimming or UV, they just remove too much stuff that should be kept in your system...

08-18-2008, 06:38 PM	#41 (permalink)
Varga Manta Ray Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,355 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin so this could really one day lead to me unplugging my skimmer? __________________ Varga's Cube http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...on-cube-5.html

08-18-2008, 06:51 PM	#42 (permalink)
Octoman 8 left feet... Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: West Haven, CT Posts: 1,960 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin I am intrigued as well... Varga, I would recommend one of those CFL floods instead that has the bulb inside of a glass housing/reflector. You don't want that curlycue bulb or the electronics inside of the base directly exposed to the saltwater spray coming off of that thing. __________________ Mark My tank thread... Octoman's 55 gallons of euphoria Tank build... 55 Construction

08-18-2008, 09:55 PM	#43 (permalink)
SantaMonica Scopas Tang Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 498 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin snkndrgn: Hope you can make use of it! varga: Depending what you mean; at least you'll get the feel for it for two days or so.

08-18-2008, 09:59 PM	#44 (permalink)
SubRosa Torch coral Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 563 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin The one negative that I'm aware of with turf scrubbers hasn't been mentioned yet.Walter Adey, who is generally credited with inventing the system noticed a significant yellowing of the water which he attributed to organic byproducts of the algae's metabolism.GAC will remove it as will additional water changes, but it's no free lunch. John __________________ Life is a comedy to those who think and a tragedy to those who feel.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

08-18-2008, 10:45 PM	#45 (permalink)
SantaMonica Scopas Tang Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 498 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everythin Concerning yellowing, this has something to do with when and how the algae is scraped ("harvested"), and also what type of algae is growing. It's also something that folks years ago experienced, but most folks nowadays don't. I think it's the harvesting that is making the difference. It's pretty well known that if you just leave the algae to grow and grow, that you'll definitely get yellowing. After all, the yellowing is coming from the chlorophyll's which I believe are green-plant based. And if you don't harvest, the green algae will overtake the brown/red. But the actual turf we want is not green, it's brown/red. So I believe this is why the current group of turf users get very high filtering (not needing any help), and no yellowing. However another "discovery" has come about by sheer chance (by user "florida joe" on one of the forums), resulting from the physical size of the unit. The original units were big and bulkly and not easily disassembled, and thus most folks back then would just scrape the turf while in-place. Well, it looks like this caused a rupturing of algal cells, causing the contents to be reintroduced to the tank water. The current batch of small scrubbers, including my turf bucket, requires you to take the screen off and clean it in the sink with running tap water. So that problem is solved. I know I have zero yellowing in mine. But if yellowing did occur for whatever reason, a monthly dose of carbon (that you need anyway to remove allelopathics) will fix it up. But the removing of the green, weekly, done in the sink, should eliminate the yellowing by itself.

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