Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

[jski711]

well i just finished my 2nd cleaning today. i have noticed that in my main display that i haven't had to use my scraper to scrape off the glass, i usually had to do this every few days because i'd get that green algae begining to grow. i've also notice that the turf that was on the screen in the first place seems to continue to spread over the screen. the only thing thats making me angry now is a byropsis outbreak that happened before i started using this homemade scrubber. now if i can rid my tank of this i will be happy again. sorry no pics i can't find my stupid camera.

Jake

[SantaMonica]

That's great to hear. How long has the glass gone now? While you are looking for your camera, maybe you could do some testing

[jski711]

No test kits. I have to go to the lfs one of these days and have em run everything.

[SantaMonica]

Here's the build-of-the-day. He says "I am currently running this system, and I'm hoping to reduce my nitrates from a steady 20 down to zero. Here's my set up on the 2nd week. (water is supplied from the output of my UV filter)". Note that he drilled his pipe, instead of cutting a slot in it; he said he did not have a rotary cutting tool, and thus he had to make it only one-sided:

[lex]

Thank you for the info i think ill try it my self. but is it wise to trust this on eliminating water changes sounds too good to be true.

[lex]

I just made one using odd bits i had floating around. im using the return from my skimmer and for the sheet i used some filter foam cut down to size. im using the lights from the refugium, it could be better but ill see how it goes. because the sheet is touching the water level does this mean the nutrients are going to go back into the water?

[lex]

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[SantaMonica]

Way to go Lex! I see that your tank is new, and that you are also starting a refugium. Congrats to you. Now that your waterfall is completed, leave it be for a while, so you can study and learn about the other parts of your aquarium. Meanwhile, here's a few things about the waterfall...

s it wise to trust this on eliminating water changes

Only if the purpose of the WC is to reduce nitrate and phosphate. And even then, your waterfall filter would need to be fully grown and operating, which it is not yet. And you will have other reasons to do WC's, too. So for now, you'll still need to do WC as normal.

because the sheet is touching the water level does this mean the nutrients are going to go back into the water?

Not at all. Once the algae starts growing in one spot, it will not "move" until something changes (light burns out, water flow stops, etc.). Now, the screen eventually will indeed "fill up" will algae to the point where it can't grow anymore. At that point it no longer will be taking nutrients out of the water. But no, it will not be releasing the nutrients back into the water, even though the screen is touching the water.

So just let it run for a while, and see what it does. You've spent $0 on it, so let's keep it that way for a while. In two weeks, post some pics and let's see what we can do from there.

[lex]

Thanks for the reply and ill keep you posted on how things are going. I just thought is the fan imperative to the success of the screen if so ill have to break the $0 budget lol.

[SantaMonica]

Nope, no fan needed to get started

[gone postal]

Well, I still haven't taken any pics, but I tore the system down today. Not b/c of any fault of the filter itself, but b/c of bubbles. Since my overflow dumps onto the screen, I have to use a pump to return to the tank. Well, I was getting terrible micro bubbles from the water running off the screen into my bucket (2.5g). It was driving me nuts!!!

SO, I finally finished my new sump today - complete w/ bubble trap. I haven't been able to retrofit my algal scrubber to work in the new sump, but I will this weekend. Of course i'll be starting from scratch on my algae growth, but it was only a week old anyway.

Now, to answer a few questions that you had asked.

Sandpaper? No

Rub algae? No

GPH? I'm guessing 450-500 based on the head flow of my pump (HOB overflow does keep pace w/ the pump)

Lighting - Two cfl from Home Depot. "Daylight" kind - I believe 6500K. They were clipped to the side of the bucket shining in, so about 3"

Trates - Well, I did a 14g water change the day I installed the filter (55g tank) and noticed trates at zero 5 days later - were 10 at water change / filter install time. I also forgot to mention that I was battling a cyano outbreak too. That's the main reason I jumped into this as quickly as I did - I was desperate. I was getting frustrated w/ constant sucking w/ the turkey baster, etc. My cyano is gone now. Now, I won't credit the algal scrubber totally b/c I turned my daylights off for the last week and have been just running actinics (wavelength that doesn't support cyano growth) and have cut down on my feeding, but I do feel that it was at least part of the winning combination.

Phospates - zero at install - haven't tested since, but see no reason for them to change negatively

Other filters - NONE!!! I disconnected my skimmer at install. (remember, I was using a bucket and water from my overflow - I couldn't physically use it if I wanted to). BUT, before everyone starts disconnecting skimmers, my tank is only a few months old. I only have a toadstool & some Zoas as of now, one fish, but have 70lbs live rock and a HOB fuge, so I think it's a nicely balanced system.

Like I said, I'll get back to it this weekend b/c I think it's a worthwhile cause. I saw results first hand and am looking forward to getting a more permanent solution. I'm thinking I can have it come off of teh HOB overflow, run down the screen like it did and then just drain into the sump where it can be heated, bubble-trapped, etc. I'll keep everyone posted!

[BSully1850]

So can I just the water directly from my overflow box that runs to my sump? After that it runs to my skimmer, then through a black spongefilter and to my return pump.

[SantaMonica]

Yes you can; it might be best to T-off from the overflow, and add a ball valve. Of course you could try it straight, and see if the waterflow can handle all the flow itself.

[BSully1850]

Great idea for the T, I just found a piece of plexi so I am going to make a one sided version like one above. I also have an LED grow light that I will use. I'll post pictures when I get started.

[SantaMonica]

2 Weeks Overload At the LFS!


One day I was in my LFS, and he was complaining of N and P being "crazy high" in one of his FO retail displays. I looked at what he was currently doing for filtration... G4 skimmer, bio balls, Phosban reactor, 2 Ocean Clear mechanical filters, and a UV on a 300 gal FO display, and he is feeding 16 cubes a day. He is currently building a custom acrylic waterfall box turf filter like I outlined in the first page of my RC post, but it's not finished yet. He says he has to keep N and P under control by changing 100g every two weeks. The bio balls seem mostly under water; to me, that would reduce their power. Also he thinks he might need to remove the mechanical filters.

Since my bucket-build thread was done, and since I completed the pics of it for the first week, I thought it was wasting its potential trying to filter my 90 since my 90 also has the original pre-grown turf bucket already working. So I asked the LFS guy if he'd like to borrow my bucket. He said yes, so I went right away to get it, and told him to measure N and P meanwhile. I had to wrap the screen in wet towels to keep it from drying out, but otherwise the whole bucket was light and easy to carry in the car. When I got there he showed me his test (Red Sea, I think), and they were deep dark colors. But I wanted to use Salifert so they'd correspond with my tank, so I used my kits to measure: N = 50, P = Off the chart (very deep dark blue). His main goal was to stop the daily rise in N and P, especially N, which had been rising an average of 1 per day.

So we set the bucket on top of his sump so it would just drain down, and hooked up one of his pumps to the waterfall pipe (no wavemaker timer), and hooked up the lights to one of his timers (18 hours on), and away it went. Here are the day-by-day measurements:


....................N...........P.............Comm ent
.
day 1..........50...........1.5+............
day 2..........50...........1.5+............
day 3..........50...........1.5+............
day 4..........50...........1.5+.........Cleaned; Iron added
day 5..........*............*...............Not measured; Original diatoms gone
day 6..........*............*...............Not measured; Waiting for WC
day 7..........*............*...............Not measured; he did 100g WC
day 8..........50...........1.5+.........WC did almost nothing, N and P same
day 9..........45?..........1.5+.........Screen about 75% full
day 10.........45...........1.5+.........Screen about 80% full
day 11..........*............*..............Store Closed Labor Day
day 12..........*............*..............Store Closed
day 13.........40?..........1.5+........95% full; bottom completely full
day 14.........35!..........1.5+........Starting to develop spots; Cleaned


And here are the pics. Note that the in-bucket pics were done with the water still flowing, since after crawling under wooden beams to get to the bucket, I had forgotten to unplug the pump; so thereafter all pics needed the pump running so they would match:

First, here is the left half of the display, and the right half (all are one system connected together):

. . . .


Here's the bio balls in the sump; Note high water level:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSbioBalls.jpg


His G4 skimmer and Phosban reactor:




His mechanical filters:




Here's the bucket as delivered, with screen wrapped to stay wet:




The bucket was put behind the wood shelves, on top of the sump, between the tanks:




Day 0: This is the screen as delivered, after the one-week test thread was finished:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay00.jpg


Day 1, Cleaned bottom of bucket:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay01.jpg


Day 2:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay02.jpg


Day 3:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay03.jpg


Day 3, Removed:


(hi-res was blurry)


Day 3, Cleaned:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...y03cleaned.jpg


Day 4:


http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay04.jpg


Day 5: Skip
Day 6: Skip

Day 7:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay07.jpg


Day 8:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay08.jpg


Day 9:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay09.jpg


Day 10:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay10.jpg


Day 11: Skip
Day 12: Skip

Day 13:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay13.jpg


Day 14:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay14.jpg


Day 14, Removed (flash); Removed (no-Flash):


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...y14removed.jpg


Day 14, Closeup of spots:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...y14closeup.jpg


Day 14, Cleaning:


http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...14cleaning.jpg


Day 14, Cleaned:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...y14cleaned.jpg


Day 14, reinstalled:


Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...einstalled.jpg


Results:





Now, this bucket is way undersized for this application. It's only 144 sq in, with just average CFL lights, and the lights are not right-up-next to the screen (due to bucket design) the way they should be for optimum performance. His tank is 300 gallons, highly fed, with no rock and no sand. But the idea is not to see if N and P can be reduced; instead it's to see how fast a screen can grow with basically unlimited nutrients. Secondarily, yes, I'd like to see how much of a dent an undersized screen can make in N and P, as long as it is cleaned properly. (The acrylic box he's building is 300 sq in, and is only 4 inches thick... he's going to place several 150 watts along the vertical walls.)

P was always off the scale, although it was indeed getting to be a lighter blue. But since blue blocks a lot of light, you cannot tell how much off the scale it is because it starts looking gray.

In the first few days of the bucket test, there was major green growth. And the growth was in clumps, as opposed to how it grew in my system, which was more of an even film of brown and green. My guess is that since nutrients are so high in his tank, once a single spot of green starts on the screen, that algae is no longer limited by trying to attach itself; it now is only limited by how fast it can multiply (which with unlimited nutrients, is astronomically fast). I can only imagine if the bucket had proper lighting (like his new acrylic box will), how fast/much it would grow.

His main objective (not mine) was indeed N and P reduction. So on day 3, I figured I'd clean the screen even though it still had bare spots on it (it had only had a week to grow on my tank). The screen is not his only filter, so I did not have to clean just one side. Pulling out the screen, it was apparent that the stronger growth was on the upper part, near the light, showing once again the importance of strong light. I cleaned both sides and put it back; for some reason it cleaned all the way down to the bare screen, not leaving much behind. I used a toothbrush, but didn't scrub that hard. We also added some iron for the first time ever in this tank.

Disappointment on Day 5. Hardly any growth. I think what happend was the the base-growth that was on the screen when I brought it was from the one-week test on my 90, which means it would be a certain type of algae (diatoms, I believe). However his tank has different chemistry and as you saw in the pics started off with green hair clumps right away. So the base of brown diatoms died, and thus the screen basically went back to brand new in his tank.

This being the case, he could not wait any longer and said he needs to change water to get the numbers down. He did a 100 gal change (on 300 total volume) on Day 6, and I came back on Day 7 to measure: Almost no change! I think he's got detritus in the bio balls or the mechanical filter, or somewhere. Nevertheless, it's still a good nutrient source for my growth test.

Growth is solid again by Day 8. Have not seen this type of growth before... big clumps of dark brown slimey stuff, right next to areas of empty screen. Mine had always filled in evenly, but this is doing it in clumps. Almost looks like someone threw mud on the screen. Regardless, the flow goes right over the clumps with no problem. This time, I'm going to let the screen fill up before I clean it, otherwise only the same areas will start growing. Only after previously-grown areas fill up will the empty areas start growing.

By Day 13, the bottom of the screen was packed, and the top had only a few empty places left. The N test looked like it was coming down, but I did not really expect it too since the tank was so heavily loaded. I wanted to clean the screen that day, but the LFS guy was impressed that the N was not rising like it usually does, and even possibly dropping. Day 14, the end of two weeks, the N actually tested about 35. He was amazed, since it normally goes up every day. He wanted to keep it as-is, but I could see some spots developing on the screen from the pods, so I said we better clean it now.

After pulling the screen out, it was easy to see the spots. It had been 10 days since cleaning; way overdue. Definitely time to clean under tap water. The feel of the algae was amazing... like tar spilled on the beach that had been drying for a while. The screen seemed to weigh a full pound. I put it in the sink and just pushed the algae off the screen with my fingers (not fingernails). This was not turf, but it was thick and heavy. There is no timer on this setup, just constant flow, so I'm not really expecting turf to develop anyway.

So I put it back into operation. He's still waiting on his custom acrylic box to be delivered, so until then this bucket will have to work alone.