miserable day for some, but others...

Electrobes · 02-22-2004, 10:28 PM

Argh I just don't get this hobby sometimes! Today my favorite fish died, my flame angel, which looked so healthy yesterday.. looked miserable today... his was swimming terrible (couldn't control air bladder), and was just turning very wierd looking. My regal has a big patch (white, like a huge scrape) on his face and looks miserable, but is swimming as though frightened out of his wits. My clown as usual seems like nothing is happening, nothing is wrong with him... hardy littl guy. My algae blenny seems okay, but is acting a bit strange in behavior... is now perching on places he never did before (maybe because the flame angel is gone?). I have been dosing Immune-Vital, which seemed to have worked before, but now seems to be doing nothing. I am still not sure what is wrong with the regal.
But where some fail, others do great. My corals look fanatastic. I have recently added an acro, and two zooanthids and they look beautiful at full bloom. My recently purchased yellow hammer is doing fantatic as well, better than it was at the LFS.
I still have a slight haze in the tank, from what I now believe to be a bacterial bloom, but do not suspect it in the deaths, ailments of my fish. It recently started disappearing, so at least a bit of good news came about today.
Well thats what I have for today.. if you have any comments or suggestions, please feel free to post! thanks!

sambot · 02-22-2004, 10:53 PM

Hey Electrobes. Could you give us some specifics about your tank? Size, age, ammonia, nitrates. I'm sure we could offer some sugestions.

Electrobes · 02-22-2004, 11:58 PM

well I have a 45G tank with 250watt 10K Metal Halide with two 55 watt (powered with 64 watts) 03 actinics. The return from the 29G refugium is about 240 GPH, with two MJ900's running. I have about 75-80 pounds of base rock, being seeded with some liverock. The salinity is about 1.0245 (just tested again today, and was shocked when two days ago it was around 1.0225!!). The Alk is high, around 12-15, pH was about 8.3. I do not know calcium, or anything else as I haven't recieved them yet. The tank itself is about 3 months old, and I believe the hazeness of the tank (which started clearing up) came from a bacterial bloom that was due. The refugium is a 29G with some rock, a large clump of chaeto. The lighting is a 30 watt power compact, on 24 hrs/day. The water spilling into the refugium is first being filtered with filter floss, and as of recent carbon, to help with the hazeness). I also have two heaters, a protein skimmer, and a smaller very low powered powerhead to have SOME movement of water in there, towards the bottom.
For livestock I have an algae blenny, a regal tang, a cinnamin clown and used to have a flame angel (died today). For the issues with them, look at the first post. I have turbo snails, and hermits as well. Also have one moon snail.
As for corals, I have a green leather tree, yellow hammers, three small Zoo's, two acros, a "sexy" leather, some green mushrooms, a frogspawn, and I think thats about it. The corals are doing fantastic.

Brucey · 02-23-2004, 06:39 AM

3 Months old is still very young for a tank.

What are you Amonia / Nitrite and Nitrate levels. These should be the very first levels you are testing for.

Don't be too hasty to replace you fish .... even if your heart is telling you too. How stable is your PH, I see that you said it was 8.3 but what is the variation during the day. Mine used to shift 7.5 to 8.3 during the day and I fish (Inc a flame angel) to PH shock ..... their immune system just take take that shift in range during the day. Are you dosing Kalk yet as this will help stablizer you PH.

Others can chip in here, but 2x250W MH seems a lot for a 45Gallon

Brucey

Gina · 02-23-2004, 07:30 AM

Just curious...how long have you had your flame?
I read an article once on the longetivity of flame angels caught with cyanide. (not saying yours was) but, more than half of these fish died and for alot of them it took up to 6 weeks before they died. Basically, the article said if you have a flame and it makes it past the 6 week period you should be safe.

Just a thought!

Electrobes · 02-23-2004, 09:20 AM

I have a single 250 watt halide, not two.. that would be a bit nuts

- I have had my flame for 2 weeks. Heh don't worry, I won't be replacing my fish for a while, until I get my test kits, not only did it cost about 65 bucks in fish, but on top of that my flame was by far my favorite

Brucey · 02-23-2004, 10:19 AM

Yeah flames are gorgeous, I tried two in my first six months and neither off them lasted more than two days ..... weird as all the other fish were doing ok at the time.

Sorry, I read 2xactinics and read into it MH as well. Doh

Brucey

Electrobes · 02-23-2004, 10:34 AM

haha thats cool. I just scanned the heck out of my tank and noticed some strange things with the remaining fish. I think my regal bit the dust, completely out of the blue (no pun intended) and when I did see him, he was swimming with absolutely no control whatsoever, just like the flame did, not to mention he looks worse than the flame did. My other favortie fish, the algae blenny is now sitting next to an acro, right in front of an outlet to a powerhead. It looks like he is in a wind storm, so I thought.. not too good, and shooed him away. I then checked my refugium to see anything peculiar, and then looked back up at my tank, and voila, back to the original spot the algae blenny goes. If my haze was due to sediment, and an algae bloom.. could it be that he is trying to clear his gills, or is trying to breathe with force??

Brucey · 02-23-2004, 11:15 AM

First thing I would do is get an amonia / nitrite and nirate test kit.

No, I don't think the blenny is trying to clear his gills / but maybe trying to gain more oxygen if the water quality has dropped off

Brucey

Electrobes · 02-23-2004, 11:21 AM

I was thinking of getting salifert test kits for magnesium, and calcium, but am not sure if there is a difference in brands when it comes to ammonia, nitrate/nitrites?

jks1 · 02-23-2004, 01:07 PM

My first thought on the blenny was oxegen starvation. Is the tank covered? Might direct a PH at the surface.

Where are you getting your water- RO/DI? I had a bacterial bloom once that killed a few fish right after I added some NSW, think it was red tide.. Just a thought.

Good luck, I think your test kits will tel you alot. IMO Salifert is still the best regardless of type of test, but I think you need to test quickly- I might try dip strips even..

EdgeKrusher · 02-23-2004, 01:26 PM

Salt doesn't leave your system when the water evaporates. How are you topping off your tank? Could be stress induced by the rapid increase of the SG of your tank. Just a thought. Hope you get this figured out ASAP.

Peace

EK

Electrobes · 02-23-2004, 02:27 PM

I top off with ro/di water from my LFS. I put the minimal amount of kalkwasser with it. I do not have a top to my tank, it is open, with the halide sitting about 7 inches above it. The tank is cooled by two fans, one blowing in the other blowing out. I am thinking of going to walmart and getting a desk fan to blow over the refugium to help with evaporation.. even though it means losing more water.

EdgeKrusher · 02-23-2004, 02:59 PM

What is the temp of your tank?

Electrobes · 02-23-2004, 05:16 PM

02-22-2004, 10:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
Electrobes Midas Blenny Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 120 View Gallery Karma Komment	miserable day for some, but others... Argh I just don't get this hobby sometimes! Today my favorite fish died, my flame angel, which looked so healthy yesterday.. looked miserable today... his was swimming terrible (couldn't control air bladder), and was just turning very wierd looking. My regal has a big patch (white, like a huge scrape) on his face and looks miserable, but is swimming as though frightened out of his wits. My clown as usual seems like nothing is happening, nothing is wrong with him... hardy littl guy. My algae blenny seems okay, but is acting a bit strange in behavior... is now perching on places he never did before (maybe because the flame angel is gone?). I have been dosing Immune-Vital, which seemed to have worked before, but now seems to be doing nothing. I am still not sure what is wrong with the regal. But where some fail, others do great. My corals look fanatastic. I have recently added an acro, and two zooanthids and they look beautiful at full bloom. My recently purchased yellow hammer is doing fantatic as well, better than it was at the LFS. I still have a slight haze in the tank, from what I now believe to be a bacterial bloom, but do not suspect it in the deaths, ailments of my fish. It recently started disappearing, so at least a bit of good news came about today. Well thats what I have for today.. if you have any comments or suggestions, please feel free to post! thanks!

02-23-2004, 06:39 AM	#4 (permalink)
Brucey Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Reading, England Posts: 1,292 View Gallery Karma Komment	3 Months old is still very young for a tank. What are you Amonia / Nitrite and Nitrate levels. These should be the very first levels you are testing for. Don't be too hasty to replace you fish .... even if your heart is telling you too. How stable is your PH, I see that you said it was 8.3 but what is the variation during the day. Mine used to shift 7.5 to 8.3 during the day and I fish (Inc a flame angel) to PH shock ..... their immune system just take take that shift in range during the day. Are you dosing Kalk yet as this will help stablizer you PH. Others can chip in here, but 2x250W MH seems a lot for a 45Gallon Brucey __________________ 160UK Gallon. (192US Gallon). 400Lbs LR. Aquamedic Turboflotor 5000 Shorty skimmer. Arcadia 3Series pendant (3x250W 14,000'K MH & 2x58W 60" actinic) (DIY cooling fan). Tunze 7095 Multicontroller & 2xTunze 6100 Streams. Redsea 100 Aquazone Plus ozonizer and redox computer. Aquamedic Ocean Runner 6500 return. TMC Vectron 30W UV sterilizer. Aquamedic Aquaniveau auto top up system through Deltec 500 kalk stirrer. PurityOnTap RO/DI. Deltec FR509 (ROWAPhos). Aquamedic PH computer controlling KNOP HD Calcium Reactor. Setup Nov 2002 See my tank here http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...&threadid=4486

02-23-2004, 07:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
Gina Moderator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 8,842 View Gallery Karma Komment	Just curious...how long have you had your flame? I read an article once on the longetivity of flame angels caught with cyanide. (not saying yours was) but, more than half of these fish died and for alot of them it took up to 6 weeks before they died. Basically, the article said if you have a flame and it makes it past the 6 week period you should be safe. Just a thought! __________________ Gina and Mark's 75 Visit Our Sponsors Gina's Cube Gina

02-23-2004, 09:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
Electrobes Midas Blenny Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 120 View Gallery Karma Komment	I have a single 250 watt halide, not two.. that would be a bit nuts - I have had my flame for 2 weeks. Heh don't worry, I won't be replacing my fish for a while, until I get my test kits, not only did it cost about 65 bucks in fish, but on top of that my flame was by far my favorite Last edited by Electrobes : 02-23-2004 at 09:36 AM.

02-23-2004, 10:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
Brucey Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Reading, England Posts: 1,292 View Gallery Karma Komment	Yeah flames are gorgeous, I tried two in my first six months and neither off them lasted more than two days ..... weird as all the other fish were doing ok at the time. Sorry, I read 2xactinics and read into it MH as well. Doh Brucey __________________ 160UK Gallon. (192US Gallon). 400Lbs LR. Aquamedic Turboflotor 5000 Shorty skimmer. Arcadia 3Series pendant (3x250W 14,000'K MH & 2x58W 60" actinic) (DIY cooling fan). Tunze 7095 Multicontroller & 2xTunze 6100 Streams. Redsea 100 Aquazone Plus ozonizer and redox computer. Aquamedic Ocean Runner 6500 return. TMC Vectron 30W UV sterilizer. Aquamedic Aquaniveau auto top up system through Deltec 500 kalk stirrer. PurityOnTap RO/DI. Deltec FR509 (ROWAPhos). Aquamedic PH computer controlling KNOP HD Calcium Reactor. Setup Nov 2002 See my tank here http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...&threadid=4486

02-22-2004, 10:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
sambot Fire Coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 72 View Gallery Karma Komment	Hey Electrobes. Could you give us some specifics about your tank? Size, age, ammonia, nitrates. I'm sure we could offer some sugestions.

02-22-2004, 11:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
Electrobes Midas Blenny Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 120 View Gallery Karma Komment	well I have a 45G tank with 250watt 10K Metal Halide with two 55 watt (powered with 64 watts) 03 actinics. The return from the 29G refugium is about 240 GPH, with two MJ900's running. I have about 75-80 pounds of base rock, being seeded with some liverock. The salinity is about 1.0245 (just tested again today, and was shocked when two days ago it was around 1.0225!!). The Alk is high, around 12-15, pH was about 8.3. I do not know calcium, or anything else as I haven't recieved them yet. The tank itself is about 3 months old, and I believe the hazeness of the tank (which started clearing up) came from a bacterial bloom that was due. The refugium is a 29G with some rock, a large clump of chaeto. The lighting is a 30 watt power compact, on 24 hrs/day. The water spilling into the refugium is first being filtered with filter floss, and as of recent carbon, to help with the hazeness). I also have two heaters, a protein skimmer, and a smaller very low powered powerhead to have SOME movement of water in there, towards the bottom. For livestock I have an algae blenny, a regal tang, a cinnamin clown and used to have a flame angel (died today). For the issues with them, look at the first post. I have turbo snails, and hermits as well. Also have one moon snail. As for corals, I have a green leather tree, yellow hammers, three small Zoo's, two acros, a "sexy" leather, some green mushrooms, a frogspawn, and I think thats about it. The corals are doing fantastic.

02-23-2004, 10:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
Electrobes Midas Blenny Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 120 View Gallery Karma Komment	haha thats cool. I just scanned the heck out of my tank and noticed some strange things with the remaining fish. I think my regal bit the dust, completely out of the blue (no pun intended) and when I did see him, he was swimming with absolutely no control whatsoever, just like the flame did, not to mention he looks worse than the flame did. My other favortie fish, the algae blenny is now sitting next to an acro, right in front of an outlet to a powerhead. It looks like he is in a wind storm, so I thought.. not too good, and shooed him away. I then checked my refugium to see anything peculiar, and then looked back up at my tank, and voila, back to the original spot the algae blenny goes. If my haze was due to sediment, and an algae bloom.. could it be that he is trying to clear his gills, or is trying to breathe with force??

02-23-2004, 11:15 AM	#9 (permalink)
Brucey Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Reading, England Posts: 1,292 View Gallery Karma Komment	First thing I would do is get an amonia / nitrite and nirate test kit. No, I don't think the blenny is trying to clear his gills / but maybe trying to gain more oxygen if the water quality has dropped off Brucey __________________ 160UK Gallon. (192US Gallon). 400Lbs LR. Aquamedic Turboflotor 5000 Shorty skimmer. Arcadia 3Series pendant (3x250W 14,000'K MH & 2x58W 60" actinic) (DIY cooling fan). Tunze 7095 Multicontroller & 2xTunze 6100 Streams. Redsea 100 Aquazone Plus ozonizer and redox computer. Aquamedic Ocean Runner 6500 return. TMC Vectron 30W UV sterilizer. Aquamedic Aquaniveau auto top up system through Deltec 500 kalk stirrer. PurityOnTap RO/DI. Deltec FR509 (ROWAPhos). Aquamedic PH computer controlling KNOP HD Calcium Reactor. Setup Nov 2002 See my tank here http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...&threadid=4486

02-23-2004, 11:21 AM	#10 (permalink)
Electrobes Midas Blenny Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 120 View Gallery Karma Komment	I was thinking of getting salifert test kits for magnesium, and calcium, but am not sure if there is a difference in brands when it comes to ammonia, nitrate/nitrites?

02-23-2004, 01:07 PM	#11 (permalink)
jks1 Achilles Tang Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Jacksonville, Fl Posts: 876 View Gallery Karma Komment	My first thought on the blenny was oxegen starvation. Is the tank covered? Might direct a PH at the surface. Where are you getting your water- RO/DI? I had a bacterial bloom once that killed a few fish right after I added some NSW, think it was red tide.. Just a thought. Good luck, I think your test kits will tel you alot. IMO Salifert is still the best regardless of type of test, but I think you need to test quickly- I might try dip strips even.. __________________ John Tank: 29g glass Pumps: Mag5.0 return - (3) rio 100 PHs Lighting: (1) 150w XM 10K/(2) 30W actinics Equipment: Aqua C Urchin skimmer- CPR Fuge, Titanium Heater -Red Sea wavemaster Pro Tank: 210g 1/2" Acrylic, dual overflows, 75g glass sump w/ 20g fuge. Pumps: Mag24 return - (2) MAG24s running 2 closed loop systems. Lighting: (3) 400w XM 10K/(2) Custom Sealife 96w PC - 25w dimmable incandescent Moonlight Equipment: Aqua C EV180 skimmer - CR500 calc reactor - Titanium Heater - AquaLogic single Stage Temp Controller - Aquanetics 1/5Hp Chiller - Neptune sys aquacontroller

02-23-2004, 01:26 PM	#12 (permalink)
EdgeKrusher Plate Coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eden Prairie, MN Posts: 716 View Gallery Karma Komment	Salt doesn't leave your system when the water evaporates. How are you topping off your tank? Could be stress induced by the rapid increase of the SG of your tank. Just a thought. Hope you get this figured out ASAP. Peace EK __________________ ((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸>< ((((º>¸¸.·´¯`·.¸. `·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.

02-23-2004, 02:27 PM	#13 (permalink)
Electrobes Midas Blenny Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 120 View Gallery Karma Komment	I top off with ro/di water from my LFS. I put the minimal amount of kalkwasser with it. I do not have a top to my tank, it is open, with the halide sitting about 7 inches above it. The tank is cooled by two fans, one blowing in the other blowing out. I am thinking of going to walmart and getting a desk fan to blow over the refugium to help with evaporation.. even though it means losing more water.

02-23-2004, 02:59 PM	#14 (permalink)
EdgeKrusher Plate Coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eden Prairie, MN Posts: 716 View Gallery Karma Komment	What is the temp of your tank? __________________ ((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸>< ((((º>¸¸.·´¯`·.¸. `·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.

02-23-2004, 05:16 PM	#15 (permalink)
Electrobes Midas Blenny Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 120 View Gallery Karma Komment	81

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