Water changes - what is considered TOO much?

JT101 · 11-06-2007, 09:47 AM

Hello All,

As I have posted previously I have been doing VERY large weekly NSW water changes on my AquaPod 24. I started out with twice-weekly 20%, then I went to 50% once a week, now I'm doing almost 75% once a week.

My question is am I changing TOO much water?

I have always heard the more the better when it comes to changes, and the 10% - 20% figures were arrived at more for the owner's convenience. In my case, since I can get fresh, crystal-clear NSW only 7 minutes from my house the convenience factor is a non-issue (i.e., it's not that much more work for me to harvest 2.2, 4.4 or 8.8 gallons).

I am not seeing any issues whatsoever. The ONLY thing that I noticed (I'm not sure if this is good or bad) is that I am getting a TON of tiny feather dusters all over a lot of the LR and sea squirts are starting to spread...

Water is almost perfect.

Any advice would be appreciated

!

Thanx
John

Witfull · 11-06-2007, 09:50 AM

yes, to much! 20% weekly is considered a large change.

Cassette87 · 11-06-2007, 09:55 AM

I agree!!! too much! I know it kinda contradicts everything we preach about reefin, but i think to a certian degree, sometimes the best way to maintain a healthy system is to simply keep our hands out! as hard as that is sometimes

forestal · 11-06-2007, 10:03 AM

i know Anthony Calfo has talked about doing weekly 100% changes on small tanks before

i used to do 40% weekly on my big reef 120gallon, but i'm lazy and now experimenting with very infrequent ones

Cassette87 · 11-06-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forestal

i know Anthony Calfo has talked about doing weekly 100% changes on small tanks before

i used to do 40% weekly on my big reef 120gallon, but i'm lazy and now experimenting with very infrequent ones

A guy a work with has a 150g reef, that he hasn't done a water change on in 6 months. all i can tell you is that his tank is BEAUTIFUL. call it dumb luck or what you want, but i know he hasn't done a WC and that tank looks phenomenal. Great growth and healthy fish. I guess it could have something to do with a skimmer rated for a tank 3x the size

forestal · 11-06-2007, 10:11 AM

hehe could be the skimmer

some people suceed with no water changes for years, but that takes careful planning i think, nutrients that go in will build up, but if you have a good live sand bed, skimming etc, can do well.

Eric borneman has a tank i think >5 years no skimmer and no water changes, has it setup very balanced

JT101 · 11-06-2007, 10:28 AM

Thanks for the replies.

Wow though, they varied a lot

!

Anywhere from "none" to "100%"!

OK, sorry for the next question but I have to ask:

WHY is it "bad" to change a LOT of water?

I get my NSW from very clean locations, of course the ammonia, nitirites, nitrates etc. are unmeasurable.

Why then would it be BAD to introduce this excellent water into a reef tank?

Witfull · 11-06-2007, 10:33 AM

salt water varies,,,and in a tank it can change even more dramatically. the main reason to not do large changes is that the larger the change,,,,the more possible flux in levels. it can shock fish's systems. it may seem unnoticable, but it can cause internal organ issues. which may possibly shorten the lifespan.

Cassette87 · 11-06-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT101

Thanks for the replies.

Wow though, they varied a lot

!

Anywhere from "none" to "100%"!

OK, sorry for the next question but I have to ask:

WHY is it "bad" to change a LOT of water?

I get my NSW from very clean locations, of course the ammonia, nitirites, nitrates etc. are unmeasurable.

Why then would it be BAD to introduce this excellent water into a reef tank?

Because a great deal of having a well balanced system is allowing it to mature and develop. This applies not only to the inhabitants, but the water as well. Yes, you want to replace water occasionally to rid excess nutrients etc, however, by changing too much water too frequently, you, in essence never let the tank "mature." and maintiain constant nutrient levels. At least this is my take on the situation! maybe someone else will chime in??

lcstorc · 11-06-2007, 10:50 AM

I'm with Witfull on this one.
Changing too much water in one change can change the levels too quickly for the inhabitants to adjust to. I do 20% every other week and that is generally considered a lot. I overfeed and overskim and the balance seems to be working well for me.
Also remember that when you do a water change you are not only removing contaminates but you are adding trace elements. This is one of the reasons you need to do them with some regularity unless you want to use a lot of supplements and a lot of testing.
I figure more changes of smaller amounts seems to adjust things more gradually.

BEELZEBOB · 11-06-2007, 10:55 AM

maybe instead of doing one big WC, you could do a series of small ones?

i do 2-4 1 gal Wc a week on my 18 gal

JT101 · 11-06-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEELZEBOB

maybe instead of doing one big WC, you could do a series of small ones?

i do 2-4 1 gal Wc a week on my 18 gal

That was my ORIGINAL goal, I think I need to go back to that, I guess it would be a little less stressful on my reef. Thanks.

JT101 · 11-06-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcstorc

I'm with Witfull on this one.
Changing too much water in one change can change the levels too quickly for the inhabitants to adjust to. I do 20% every other week and that is generally considered a lot. I overfeed and overskim and the balance seems to be working well for me.
Also remember that when you do a water change you are not only removing contaminates but you are adding trace elements. This is one of the reasons you need to do them with some regularity unless you want to use a lot of supplements and a lot of testing.
I figure more changes of smaller amounts seems to adjust things more gradually.

Agreed, I think this makes perfect sense. I will go to smaller twice-weekly water changes. I tend to overfeed too, so I think if I want to continue with my established feeding regimen I'll have to go with 2x/week changes.

Thanks
John

BEELZEBOB · 11-06-2007, 04:08 PM

hmm.

this got me thinking, do i do enough?

on average im changin 5%-15% weekly...

and i have a ghetto skimmer

Rcpilot · 11-06-2007, 07:32 PM

I've been thinking about slowing down on my water changes. I have a 30g tank and I've been doing about 5-6g per week. Usually on sunday.

My water always tests perfect. No nitrate, ammonia, nitrite. Zip--none, and i'm using Salifert tests. I'm dosing pH, because for some reason, it just wants to run about 7.6. I dose it to 8.2. My fish and inverts seam healthy. They are growing and spreading. Calcium is running about 450 and my coraline is starting to grow rapidly now. alk is about 9.8

I feed heavy. I skim wet and heavy. I got so much cheato in my refugium, I've started cutting it out. I know it grows so rapidly because of all the nutrients in the water from overfeeding. Everything just seams really stable. I add some zooplankton and phytoplankton about once a week. I add Marine Snow at 1/2 strength about once a week. I shut the skimmer off for about 4hrs after I does the zoo,phyto and marine snow.

I might just go a month without a water change and see what happens.

11-06-2007, 09:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
JT101 Neon dottyback Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hicksville NY Posts: 661 View Gallery Karma Komment	Water changes - what is considered TOO much? Hello All, As I have posted previously I have been doing VERY large weekly NSW water changes on my AquaPod 24. I started out with twice-weekly 20%, then I went to 50% once a week, now I'm doing almost 75% once a week. My question is am I changing TOO much water? I have always heard the more the better when it comes to changes, and the 10% - 20% figures were arrived at more for the owner's convenience. In my case, since I can get fresh, crystal-clear NSW only 7 minutes from my house the convenience factor is a non-issue (i.e., it's not that much more work for me to harvest 2.2, 4.4 or 8.8 gallons). I am not seeing any issues whatsoever. The ONLY thing that I noticed (I'm not sure if this is good or bad) is that I am getting a TON of tiny feather dusters all over a lot of the LR and sea squirts are starting to spread... Water is almost perfect. Any advice would be appreciated ! Thanx John

11-06-2007, 09:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
Cassette87 Reef Lobster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Palos Park, IL Posts: 1,421 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Water changes - what is considered TOO much? I agree!!! too much! I know it kinda contradicts everything we preach about reefin, but i think to a certian degree, sometimes the best way to maintain a healthy system is to simply keep our hands out! as hard as that is sometimes __________________ Andy My 29 Gallon Reef! My DIY LED Lights Current Status - Work followed by School :Java: - 9/8/08 I'm still around people, just on a sort of "summer-time leave" Feel free to PM or e-mail me for any needs!

11-06-2007, 10:03 AM	#4 (permalink)
forestal Torch coral Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vernon, CT Posts: 582 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Water changes - what is considered TOO much? i know Anthony Calfo has talked about doing weekly 100% changes on small tanks before i used to do 40% weekly on my big reef 120gallon, but i'm lazy and now experimenting with very infrequent ones __________________ Peace, Dan

11-06-2007, 10:11 AM	#6 (permalink)
forestal Torch coral Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vernon, CT Posts: 582 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Water changes - what is considered TOO much? hehe could be the skimmer some people suceed with no water changes for years, but that takes careful planning i think, nutrients that go in will build up, but if you have a good live sand bed, skimming etc, can do well. Eric borneman has a tank i think >5 years no skimmer and no water changes, has it setup very balanced __________________ Peace, Dan

11-06-2007, 10:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
JT101 Neon dottyback Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hicksville NY Posts: 661 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Water changes - what is considered TOO much? Thanks for the replies. Wow though, they varied a lot ! Anywhere from "none" to "100%"! OK, sorry for the next question but I have to ask: WHY is it "bad" to change a LOT of water? I get my NSW from very clean locations, of course the ammonia, nitirites, nitrates etc. are unmeasurable. Why then would it be BAD to introduce this excellent water into a reef tank?

11-06-2007, 10:50 AM	#10 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 20,786 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Water changes - what is considered TOO much? I'm with Witfull on this one. Changing too much water in one change can change the levels too quickly for the inhabitants to adjust to. I do 20% every other week and that is generally considered a lot. I overfeed and overskim and the balance seems to be working well for me. Also remember that when you do a water change you are not only removing contaminates but you are adding trace elements. This is one of the reasons you need to do them with some regularity unless you want to use a lot of supplements and a lot of testing. I figure more changes of smaller amounts seems to adjust things more gradually. __________________ Peace LYNN You can't change the past but you can change how you view it. A reef tank is like a racecar. The faster you go the harder you crash. Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Every 60 seconds you spend upset is a minute of happiness you'll never get back. In Loving Memory Of Z 01/22/07 - 08/19/08

11-06-2007, 07:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
Rcpilot Has been struck by the ban stick Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Arvada, CO. Posts: 297 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Water changes - what is considered TOO much? I've been thinking about slowing down on my water changes. I have a 30g tank and I've been doing about 5-6g per week. Usually on sunday. My water always tests perfect. No nitrate, ammonia, nitrite. Zip--none, and i'm using Salifert tests. I'm dosing pH, because for some reason, it just wants to run about 7.6. I dose it to 8.2. My fish and inverts seam healthy. They are growing and spreading. Calcium is running about 450 and my coraline is starting to grow rapidly now. alk is about 9.8 I feed heavy. I skim wet and heavy. I got so much cheato in my refugium, I've started cutting it out. I know it grows so rapidly because of all the nutrients in the water from overfeeding. Everything just seams really stable. I add some zooplankton and phytoplankton about once a week. I add Marine Snow at 1/2 strength about once a week. I shut the skimmer off for about 4hrs after I does the zoo,phyto and marine snow. I might just go a month without a water change and see what happens.

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