the quite controversial MANDARIN GOBY

[rDr4g0n]

ok guys, ive seen and read it everywhere. you cant keep a mandarin in a small tank, and you cant keep one in a system without a crapload of copepods.

well my LFS dude decided to screw the system and has been keeping a spotted mandarin in his tank. The tank is a year old, and has a 10 gallon sump that he jump started with pods from a coworkers 125gallon system.

get this: his display tank is 10 gallons.

he has a variety of corals, 3 firefish that dont fight with each other, some other fish i cant recall off the top of my head, and a mandarin that is perfectly happy. wanna know something else? that mandarin will eat frozen brine shrimp.

so this miracle fish is breaking every mandarin rule there is. any input? think maybe the precautions we take in this hobby are sometimes more than is necessary?

let the war begin!

[Dentoid]

How long has he had that Mandarin? It is reported that on rare occasions they do eat frozen foods etc. How many would you be willing to go through before you found one that eats and remains healthy from frozen food?

[rDr4g0n]

Originally Posted by Dentoid

How long has he had that Mandarin? It is reported that on rare occasions they do eat frozen foods etc. How many would you be willing to go through before you found one that eats and remains healthy from frozen food?

lol thats a good point. since he works at the LFS hes watched for the one he wanted, and apparently got lucky with his choice. I think hes had that mandarin for a few months.

[Warnberg]

There are always exceptions to the rule. MOST mandarins will not do well in that environment. However there are a few, that if healthy to begin with can be taught to eat frozen foods. It's tricky but if you take very small pieces of shrimp and get them to bounce along the bottom in front of the mandarin most will pick it up and eat it.

For every mandarin you hear of that will eat frozen foods there are literally hundreds that die, sad but true.

[BEELZEBOB]

well thats pretty freggin sweet.

maybe i could just ask all my LFs to watch for a mandarin that eats frozen foods, leave my phone number and hope for the best.

i wonder how long you'd have to wait.

[rDr4g0n]

Originally Posted by BEELZEBOB

well thats pretty freggin sweet.

maybe i could just ask all my LFs to watch for a mandarin that eats frozen foods, leave my phone number and hope for the best.

i wonder how long you'd have to wait.

lol im still avoiding getting a mandarin even if it may live (just like im not gonna get a flame angel *cry*)

my next tank will be FOWLR so i can pack it with awesome fish!

[lcstorc]

A few months is too early to call it a success story particularly if it is only eating brine. Brine shrimp has very little nutritional value.
Unfortunately, I doubt he will have long term success unless he constantly adds pods to the system.
I have seen many die this way and hate to see it happen again.
Why do they have to be so gorgeous that everybody has to try one (or more) and fail before they believe. (Including me at the beginning. Well really I listened to bad LFS advice and didn't know any better but should have researched on my own.)

[BrothaWolf]

I want one real bad but am holding off for at least a year. Besides LFS wont sell me one until the find the right one. They are watching for one that will take frozen foods for me and one that is not half dead when it comes in. Every time I see live pods I buy some and add to my fuge and my display.

[wonderloss]

Originally Posted by rDr4g0n

lol thats a good point. since he works at the LFS hes watched for the one he wanted, and apparently got lucky with his choice. I think hes had that mandarin for a few months.

A few months is not very long. See if he keeps it alive for over a year, and you can determine how successful he actually is. I would say the same about keeping the 3 firefish together. How long have they been together? If it has only been a couple of months, then I would not consider that a success either.

One of the first fish I ever got was a scooter blenny, before I really knew what I was doing. I have had it over a year, and it does alright. It eats frozen mysis shrimp, and it always has. That's what I feed it every day. I used to have a nice pod population, then I got my algae problem under control, and my pods went away. I don't have a fuge, and don't have space for one right now. I'm keeping a close eye on him to make sure he does't start wasting away.

[lcstorc]

Be sure to check the date on the pods. They have a very short shelf life. The less time they spend in the bag or bottle the more live pods you will actually get.

[BrothaWolf]

Originally Posted by lcstorc

Be sure to check the date on the pods. They have a very short shelf life. The less time they spend in the bag or bottle the more live pods you will actually get.

LFS just started stocking Tigger Pods... they refrigerate them at about 45 degrees and they are still swimming around like mad... I have my doubts about them surviving very long in our tanks....

[Cougra]

A healthy fish will take a long time to starve to death. A couple months isn't long enough for it to starve to death, especially if it can get some supplemental feedings either through copepods that were once in the tank or the occasional bit of frozen foods it can pick up. In a tank that small chances are it will take about 6-8 months to show serious signs of malnutrition and stress. If you really want to know how "Happy" it is in a small tank like that, ask him again in a years time how well it's doing. I'll place my money on it being dead in that time!

Fish are NOT like humans. Many of them can live a very long time without food (there are always exceptions like Anthias and tangs that need constant feeding) before they show signs of malnutrition. This is because of their relatively low need for energy production. A bottom dwelling fish such as mandarins don't need to expend energy to keep them neutrally buoyant as they simply rest on the ground when not in motion. Most fish rely on their surroundings to regulate their body temperatures and metabolism so they don't waste energy on extra heat production. Fish are very well suited for locomotion in their native habitats and have generally developed in such a way as to minimize the resistance that swimming through water takes such as secreting a slim for water to flow past them very easily and a body form that reduces water resistance. The main things that fish use the majority of their energy for is growing and reproduction. This conservation of energy adds up to their ability to go long periods of time without eating or having to tap into their fat reserves. However mammals are used to feeling the effects of not eating within hours due to our need to produce and consume energy in our own bodies and we tend to erroneously transpose these needs onto our fish.

A second problem is even if there is something wrong with a fish, they tend not to show symptoms until it’s nearly too late. This has to do with survival of the fittest in nature and any fish will ruthlessly attack that fish showing signs of injury or illness.

Unfortunately it’s stories like that that prompt people to think that if Mr. X can do it, then so can I without them realising or even caring that these people are either the exception to the rules or simply haven’t had the fish in those conditions long enough to show symptoms of chronic malnutrition.

[Dragon Wrasse]

Originally Posted by lcstorc

A few months is too early to call it a success story particularly if it is only eating brine. Brine shrimp has very little nutritional value.
Unfortunately, I doubt he will have long term success unless he constantly adds pods to the system.

I agree....I had a Mandarin in my Softy Tank, I had a ton of pods in the tank when he was added, unfortunatly I have a small HOB refugium on that tank and my system could not keep up with the demand for pods....the Mandarin lasted a little less than a year.....Now my SPS Tank has a bigger Refugium and a sump..the Refugium has a bunch of brillo pad and grape cylurpa that produce a bunch of differant types of pods and snails, the Mandarin in my main display is fat and happy and has been for almost two years.....I think for the most part they need the pods.

[rDr4g0n]

Originally Posted by Dragon Wrasse

I agree....I had a Mandarin in my Softy Tank, I had a ton of pods in the tank when he was added, unfortunatly I have a small HOB refugium on that tank and my system could not keep up with the demand for pods....the Mandarin lasted a little less than a year.....Now my SPS Tank has a bigger Refugium and a sump..the Refugium has a bunch of brillo pad and grape cylurpa that produce a bunch of differant types of pods and snails, the Mandarin in my main display is fat and happy and has been for almost two years.....I think for the most part they need the pods.

so should i just set up a 55 gallon sump on my 30 gallon display tank and get one!? lol

seriously though i agree with all of the above. well see how long he lasts.

[Dragon Wrasse]

Originally Posted by rDr4g0n

so should i just set up a 55 gallon sump on my 30 gallon display tank and get one!? lol

seriously though i agree with all of the above. well see how long he lasts.

From one Dragon to Another....set up a 24 gal. Refugium and then get one...