ORP and me-help!

Dentoid · 01-01-2007, 03:10 PM

As a new reefer I'm finding it difficult to understand why my ORP is 450mv! I've read articles and "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" which say that ORP numbers above 400 are dangerous. My system consists of:
90 gallon tank w/15 gallon sump/trickle filter
4" live DSB
180 lbs LR (aquacultered from Florida)
ASM G-1X skimmer
Coralife Aqualight Pro (2-150w metal halide, 2-96w actincs)
Neptune Aquacontroller III
Red Sea ozonizer 50mg/h
Kent Marine High-S RO filter for all water/changes
The system has been set up for 6 weeks and went nicely through its cycle. The current readings are: NH3/NH4=0, NO3=0, NO4=80, pH=8.0, temp=79.6, ORP=450! I have not added any livestock except what came on the LR and the clean-up crew which I have ID'd as the following:
Plexaurella dichotoma (cnidarian) branching, limber and upright
Pseudoplexaura flagellosa (cnidarian)
Orange finger sponge
2-Serpent stars
4 Peppermint shrimps
2 tigertail cukes
90 blue legged hermits
50 Astrea snails.
My problem started when I noticed the P. flagellosa not extending its polyps after doing so for 3-4 weeks. I thought it was because the nitrates were getting up there (although the P. dichotoma and other cup corals and encrusting corals are fully extended). I did a 10% WC and at that time the water qauality numbers were similar to the above numbers. Also at that time I unplugged the ozonizer, which I commonly do to clean the skimmer cup, and left it unplugged. By the way the ozonizer is being controlled by
the Neptune to shut off at 380. Even with the ozonizer unplugged, the ORP has been creeping up. Yesterday it was at 438. I instituted a 10% WC, mainly for the NO4 level and noticed that the ORP went down to 318. This morning the ORP is 450. Does anyone see what I'm doing wrong here? There is caulerpa growing in the tank-is that causing it? Could the sponge be giving off noxious chemicals?-(it's about 6 inches from the non opening cnidarian). I feed very sparingly 1/2 piece of chopped, raw shrimp 2-3 X's/wk, in fact I'm worried that I am starving the inhabitants. I have been removing the bio-balls slowly over the past 2 weeks and have changed the filter pad in the sump. I know I have multiple issues here and hope this isn't too lengthy.. Perhaps someone can give me some advice on geeting the ORP and No4 in line. Thanks in advance.

sasquatch · 01-01-2007, 03:19 PM

Dentoid, I dont know what ORP even stands for so Im tagging(thank you) Steve

BoomerD · 01-01-2007, 03:35 PM

Hopefully "that OTHER Boomer" will chime in on this...

How old is your ORP probe? Have you cleaned it recently?
With the ozone being controlled by the aquacontroller, things SHOULD be more in line than that...and with the ozonizer turned OFF, it shouldn't continue to climb, but start to go down...First thing I'd suspect is the probe...

Dentoid · 01-01-2007, 03:38 PM

Thanks BoomerD I will check the probe. It's only 6 weeks old though. I will check the manual for clening instructions.

BoomerD · 01-01-2007, 04:08 PM

That's new enough it shouldn't be off..unless for some reason, your sump is horribly filthy, (don't think that's the case, but...) Not sure if there's a calibration method or not.

Maybe PM Boomer (NOT BoomerD) and ask him to take a look at this thread...

Dentoid · 01-01-2007, 04:24 PM

BoomerD, there is a calibration method using Quinhydrone calibration solutions, however, the Neptune instruction manual reads, "...it is not necessary to calibrate the ORP probe...it has been properly calibrated at the factory to maintain accurate ORP readings for the lifetime of the controller." Obviously, there is something amiss with the probe. I'll keep looking into. No cleaning instructions with the probe either.

Dentoid · 01-01-2007, 04:27 PM

Sasquatch, Oxidation-reduction potential. Maybe your reply is a nice way of saying, it's not that important?

lcstorc · 01-01-2007, 04:34 PM

Check in the Chemistry forum. I believe I remember Boomer talking about it some in the ozone thread. I believe that is when it is important. Not really sure though so I'm gonna tag along as well.

lcstorc · 01-01-2007, 04:37 PM

I found a link in a previous post to an article in Reefkeeping. It is a Boomer link so perhaps this will help.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

Dentoid · 01-01-2007, 04:56 PM

Lynn-thanks for the link. I'm still trying to negotiate this mass site-whew!

lcstorc · 01-01-2007, 04:59 PM

Lots of info out there. I just remembered I bookmarked it when it was mentioned earlier as one of those things I need to learn.
Hope it helps.

Dentoid · 01-01-2007, 05:39 PM

Lynn-great article in Reefkeeping, somewhat esoteric and brings back memories of chemistry. Thanks for your help.

sasquatch · 01-01-2007, 05:45 PM

Dentoid,there are so many facets to this hobby I could never hope to know anything 100%, so its oxidation-reduction potential? ok now Im goining to find out what that means(hopefully) (probably painfully) unless of coarse some nice person would feed it to me gently??

Steve

Jorgens · 01-01-2007, 06:10 PM

gebus....I was happy at nitrate control. Calcium control. What the hell is that oxidation thing for? I'm not sure if i can read all that today....

I knew I should have taken chemistry in High School.!!!!!!

01-01-2007, 03:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
Dentoid Over Achiever Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 10,827 View Gallery Karma Komment	ORP and me-help! As a new reefer I'm finding it difficult to understand why my ORP is 450mv! I've read articles and "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" which say that ORP numbers above 400 are dangerous. My system consists of: 90 gallon tank w/15 gallon sump/trickle filter 4" live DSB 180 lbs LR (aquacultered from Florida) ASM G-1X skimmer Coralife Aqualight Pro (2-150w metal halide, 2-96w actincs) Neptune Aquacontroller III Red Sea ozonizer 50mg/h Kent Marine High-S RO filter for all water/changes The system has been set up for 6 weeks and went nicely through its cycle. The current readings are: NH3/NH4=0, NO3=0, NO4=80, pH=8.0, temp=79.6, ORP=450! I have not added any livestock except what came on the LR and the clean-up crew which I have ID'd as the following: Plexaurella dichotoma (cnidarian) branching, limber and upright Pseudoplexaura flagellosa (cnidarian) Orange finger sponge 2-Serpent stars 4 Peppermint shrimps 2 tigertail cukes 90 blue legged hermits 50 Astrea snails. My problem started when I noticed the P. flagellosa not extending its polyps after doing so for 3-4 weeks. I thought it was because the nitrates were getting up there (although the P. dichotoma and other cup corals and encrusting corals are fully extended). I did a 10% WC and at that time the water qauality numbers were similar to the above numbers. Also at that time I unplugged the ozonizer, which I commonly do to clean the skimmer cup, and left it unplugged. By the way the ozonizer is being controlled by the Neptune to shut off at 380. Even with the ozonizer unplugged, the ORP has been creeping up. Yesterday it was at 438. I instituted a 10% WC, mainly for the NO4 level and noticed that the ORP went down to 318. This morning the ORP is 450. Does anyone see what I'm doing wrong here? There is caulerpa growing in the tank-is that causing it? Could the sponge be giving off noxious chemicals?-(it's about 6 inches from the non opening cnidarian). I feed very sparingly 1/2 piece of chopped, raw shrimp 2-3 X's/wk, in fact I'm worried that I am starving the inhabitants. I have been removing the bio-balls slowly over the past 2 weeks and have changed the filter pad in the sump. I know I have multiple issues here and hope this isn't too lengthy.. Perhaps someone can give me some advice on geeting the ORP and No4 in line. Thanks in advance.

01-01-2007, 03:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
sasquatch Brunt of all Jokes~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: the very farthest west coast of canada Posts: 8,917 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: ORP and me-help! Dentoid, I dont know what ORP even stands for so Im tagging(thank you) Steve

01-01-2007, 03:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
BoomerD Reef Shark Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 5,637 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: ORP and me-help! Hopefully "that OTHER Boomer" will chime in on this... How old is your ORP probe? Have you cleaned it recently? With the ozone being controlled by the aquacontroller, things SHOULD be more in line than that...and with the ozonizer turned OFF, it shouldn't continue to climb, but start to go down...First thing I'd suspect is the probe... __________________ Intelligence is not knowing all the answers, but knowing where and how to find them! www.google.com

01-01-2007, 03:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
Dentoid Over Achiever Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 10,827 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: ORP and me-help! Thanks BoomerD I will check the probe. It's only 6 weeks old though. I will check the manual for clening instructions.

01-01-2007, 04:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
BoomerD Reef Shark Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Northern California Posts: 5,637 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: ORP and me-help! That's new enough it shouldn't be off..unless for some reason, your sump is horribly filthy, (don't think that's the case, but...) Not sure if there's a calibration method or not. Maybe PM Boomer (NOT BoomerD) and ask him to take a look at this thread... __________________ Intelligence is not knowing all the answers, but knowing where and how to find them! www.google.com

01-01-2007, 04:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
Dentoid Over Achiever Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 10,827 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: ORP and me-help! BoomerD, there is a calibration method using Quinhydrone calibration solutions, however, the Neptune instruction manual reads, "...it is not necessary to calibrate the ORP probe...it has been properly calibrated at the factory to maintain accurate ORP readings for the lifetime of the controller." Obviously, there is something amiss with the probe. I'll keep looking into. No cleaning instructions with the probe either.

01-01-2007, 04:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dentoid Over Achiever Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 10,827 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: ORP and me-help! Sasquatch, Oxidation-reduction potential. Maybe your reply is a nice way of saying, it's not that important?

01-01-2007, 04:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 21,928 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: ORP and me-help! Check in the Chemistry forum. I believe I remember Boomer talking about it some in the ozone thread. I believe that is when it is important. Not really sure though so I'm gonna tag along as well. __________________ Peace LYNN You can't change the past but you can change how you view it. A reef tank is like a racecar. The faster you go the harder you crash. Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Every 60 seconds you spend upset is a minute of happiness you'll never get back.

01-01-2007, 04:37 PM	#9 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 21,928 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: ORP and me-help! I found a link in a previous post to an article in Reefkeeping. It is a Boomer link so perhaps this will help. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php __________________ Peace LYNN You can't change the past but you can change how you view it. A reef tank is like a racecar. The faster you go the harder you crash. Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Every 60 seconds you spend upset is a minute of happiness you'll never get back.

01-01-2007, 04:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
Dentoid Over Achiever Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 10,827 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: ORP and me-help! Lynn-thanks for the link. I'm still trying to negotiate this mass site-whew!

01-01-2007, 04:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 21,928 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: ORP and me-help! Lots of info out there. I just remembered I bookmarked it when it was mentioned earlier as one of those things I need to learn. Hope it helps. __________________ Peace LYNN You can't change the past but you can change how you view it. A reef tank is like a racecar. The faster you go the harder you crash. Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Every 60 seconds you spend upset is a minute of happiness you'll never get back.

01-01-2007, 05:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
Dentoid Over Achiever Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 10,827 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: ORP and me-help! Lynn-great article in Reefkeeping, somewhat esoteric and brings back memories of chemistry. Thanks for your help.

01-01-2007, 05:45 PM	#13 (permalink)
sasquatch Brunt of all Jokes~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: the very farthest west coast of canada Posts: 8,917 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: ORP and me-help! Dentoid,there are so many facets to this hobby I could never hope to know anything 100%, so its oxidation-reduction potential? ok now Im goining to find out what that means(hopefully) (probably painfully) unless of coarse some nice person would feed it to me gently?? Steve

01-01-2007, 06:10 PM	#14 (permalink)
Jorgens Scopas Tang Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 434 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: ORP and me-help! gebus....I was happy at nitrate control. Calcium control. What the hell is that oxidation thing for? I'm not sure if i can read all that today.... I knew I should have taken chemistry in High School.!!!!!! __________________ Proud member of the 200+ Club! http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...gens/Aquarium/ I have no fear of falling. Hitting the ground SUX tho....

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