Opinion on Plumbing Design

hooked82 · 09-18-2006, 11:45 PM

Well guys, this is going to be my new setup. Its a 125 gallon RR all glass tank, with overflows in both corners. 2 pipes in each overflow. I plan on going 1 return and 1 outlet per box, so 2 returns, 2 outlets. I plan on using either 1" or 1-1/4" rigid pvc all around, would like some thoughts on that. The tank will be in the living room and this setup is on the other side of the wall in a closet with limited width and depth but 7' tall. What I'm looking for is suggestions if you are seeing anything wrong with the setup or if theres anything you would change. This is the way that the guy has it setup that I am buying the tank/equipment from. I plan on putting unions on either sides of the pumps and equipment for easy cleaning/pipe replacement. Also there will be ball or needle valves after and before the bulkheads on the sump to help control flow. By the way, sorry for the bad drawing, but I spent about 4 hours on Google Sketch making it purdy, and my computer crashed before I was able to save, so this is all I got now.

Also the 2 pumps are Iwaki's. The skimmer pump is about 900gph, and the return pump is 1500-1800 gph(setup is not yet at my place). Thanks in advance for all your comments/suggestions.

mps9506 · 09-19-2006, 12:08 AM

I would have a dedicated pump to the chiller and calcium reactor. Otherwise looks good to me.

hooked82 · 09-19-2006, 12:13 AM

So what would you suggest? Only having the 1 return, or teeing the 1 return to 2 returns, having a seperate pump to pump up to the refugium, chiller, and calc reactor, or go with 3 outlets and 1 single return?

mps9506 · 09-19-2006, 12:26 AM

I personally think it is easier to have one of your drains from the tank drain into your refugium as opposed to having a pump pump water to the refugium.
I would still tee your return pump to both return pipes into the tank. Then purchase a seperate pump to feed the chiller and reactor.
Depending on your physical setup feeding the refugium from one of the tank drain lines might not be practical. It doesn't have to be done that way. I just figure if you have a 1500gph iwaki, you might as well be using most of that flow to help increase crculation in your display tank and not feeding other devices.

hooked82 · 09-19-2006, 12:38 AM

Yeah the refugium will be above the tank outlet with how I have to set this up, with such little space. The chiller doesnt need to have the water running through it for another 9-10 months so I think I may do something like this. I will take the return line and "T" it to goto the two inlets. Then I will take a small pump to run up to the refugium and the calc reactor. Both will have valves to control the flow. The chiller will also be plumbed but will have a ball valve to close it off until next summer if I even need it then. Whatcha think?
Also, what would you suggest for pipe size 1" or 1-1/4"?

mps9506 · 09-19-2006, 12:44 AM

Sounds good. I would go with 1-1/4" if possible. Only because this reduces frictional head losses in your plumbing. I think the reurn pipe plumbing on AGA tanks is only 3/4" or something like that. I typically turn both holes in each overflow into a drain and have the returns go over the sides coming through larger diameter plumbing so the water doesn't come out at such a high velocity, but with the same amount of gph.

hooked82 · 09-19-2006, 01:17 AM

I will eventually turn all 4 into outlets and either go with a closed loop or something with the returns going over the back of the glass. But for now the inlets/outlets will work as I just need to get this setup complete so I can get the tank over to my place from they guys place that I bought it from.
Also you are correct about the 3/4" inlets. You would still suggest 1-1/4" pvc for those, and restrict at the bulkhead to 3/4"? I really appreciate your input. Thanks.

mps9506 · 09-19-2006, 01:21 AM

I would go ahead and use the 1-1/4" since you plan on changing all for holes to drains anyways. This way in the future when you change the tank return plumbing, you don't have the need to redo the entire plumbing, just where you reduce the plumbing to go to 3/4".
FWIW, depending on your budget, it is a lot cheaper to go with 1" plumbing, but if you aren't worried about the cost go oversize. It would be nice if you have the 1-1/4" that you could split to return through a couple of 1" sea swirls or something similar.

hooked82 · 09-19-2006, 01:49 AM

I will more than likely go with the 1-1/4" PVC as I get a good discount on the stuff. Other than trying to eliminate as many 90's, any other suggestions on basic plumbing for me?

deaclauderdale · 09-19-2006, 03:10 AM

Invest in the duroso pipes they will all but eliminate the sound of water entering the overflows. Other than that it is a great design. Goodluck!

lcstorc · 09-19-2006, 07:45 AM

Another vote for the durso. And I know next to nothing about plumbing. I just know how much it cut the sound coming from my reef.
You might want to try to get Kensn on this thread as well. I have seen some great drawings and plans from him.
Just a suggestion. Send him a pm and he is likely to respond though I haven't seen him in a couple of weeks.

Kensn · 09-20-2006, 12:34 AM

A calcium reactor only needs a small amount of water, I use a Aqua Lifter to supply mine. I would use a dedicated pump for the skimmer and return, good flow in the main display tank should be your goal. One drain to the fuge and one drain to the sump. A smaller pump could be dedicated to the chiller and returned to the display as well for increased water movement.

hooked82 · 09-20-2006, 12:52 AM

Thanks for the input guys. As far as the durso standpipes, I believe he has them in there already. The tank is really quite, I just dont remember the complete details about the overflows.

Kensn: I wont be able to have an overflow to the fuge unless I put that under the tank in the stand, propped up off the ground so that it can overflow into the sump. With the limited space in the closet it will more than likely have to be above height of the overflow(unfortunately). So my plan was to have a small pump, pump up to the fuge and the calcium reactor and the fuge would overflow back into the sump. The skimmer and return will have their own pumps and eventually the return will be a closed loop, but for now will just go back over the overflows. My main concern is to get the tank running, as time will be somewhat limited as I have livestock that will need to go back in. I dont see too much wrong with this, but this is my first plumbing job and my last tank just had an overflow to a sump and a return up over the side. So this setup is quite extravagent comparatively.

Appreciate all your guys' comments and suggestions, keep em coming.

Kensn · 09-20-2006, 01:04 AM

The supply to the calcium reactor is more like a fast drip, it might be hard to get that desired rate with with a teed off pump. A calcium reactor can be a great tool, but needs to be tuned in and constant. If the fuge is going to be that high it would be really great to have it flow directly into the tank so that any pods did not have to travel through a pump.

hooked82 · 09-20-2006, 01:48 AM

Hmm, not sure how I would go about doing that. I am going to get some final measurements of all the equipment and make up a stand and get it all finalized. Then it will be time to go pickup the pvc and create the plumbing. I will see if its possible to get an overflow over the top of the main tank.

09-18-2006, 11:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
hooked82 Midas Blenny Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arlington, WA Posts: 85 View Gallery Karma Komment	Opinion on Plumbing Design Well guys, this is going to be my new setup. Its a 125 gallon RR all glass tank, with overflows in both corners. 2 pipes in each overflow. I plan on going 1 return and 1 outlet per box, so 2 returns, 2 outlets. I plan on using either 1" or 1-1/4" rigid pvc all around, would like some thoughts on that. The tank will be in the living room and this setup is on the other side of the wall in a closet with limited width and depth but 7' tall. What I'm looking for is suggestions if you are seeing anything wrong with the setup or if theres anything you would change. This is the way that the guy has it setup that I am buying the tank/equipment from. I plan on putting unions on either sides of the pumps and equipment for easy cleaning/pipe replacement. Also there will be ball or needle valves after and before the bulkheads on the sump to help control flow. By the way, sorry for the bad drawing, but I spent about 4 hours on Google Sketch making it purdy, and my computer crashed before I was able to save, so this is all I got now. Also the 2 pumps are Iwaki's. The skimmer pump is about 900gph, and the return pump is 1500-1800 gph(setup is not yet at my place). Thanks in advance for all your comments/suggestions.

09-19-2006, 12:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
mps9506 Totally stoked dude Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 7,518 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design I would have a dedicated pump to the chiller and calcium reactor. Otherwise looks good to me. __________________ Mike "The Bandwith Bandit" Help Build Reefpedia Premium Membership Available! Support Reef Sanctuary Sponsors

09-19-2006, 12:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
hooked82 Midas Blenny Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arlington, WA Posts: 85 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design So what would you suggest? Only having the 1 return, or teeing the 1 return to 2 returns, having a seperate pump to pump up to the refugium, chiller, and calc reactor, or go with 3 outlets and 1 single return?

09-19-2006, 12:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
mps9506 Totally stoked dude Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 7,518 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design I personally think it is easier to have one of your drains from the tank drain into your refugium as opposed to having a pump pump water to the refugium. I would still tee your return pump to both return pipes into the tank. Then purchase a seperate pump to feed the chiller and reactor. Depending on your physical setup feeding the refugium from one of the tank drain lines might not be practical. It doesn't have to be done that way. I just figure if you have a 1500gph iwaki, you might as well be using most of that flow to help increase crculation in your display tank and not feeding other devices. __________________ Mike "The Bandwith Bandit" Help Build Reefpedia Premium Membership Available! Support Reef Sanctuary Sponsors

09-19-2006, 12:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
hooked82 Midas Blenny Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arlington, WA Posts: 85 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design Yeah the refugium will be above the tank outlet with how I have to set this up, with such little space. The chiller doesnt need to have the water running through it for another 9-10 months so I think I may do something like this. I will take the return line and "T" it to goto the two inlets. Then I will take a small pump to run up to the refugium and the calc reactor. Both will have valves to control the flow. The chiller will also be plumbed but will have a ball valve to close it off until next summer if I even need it then. Whatcha think? Also, what would you suggest for pipe size 1" or 1-1/4"?

09-19-2006, 12:44 AM	#6 (permalink)
mps9506 Totally stoked dude Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 7,518 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design Sounds good. I would go with 1-1/4" if possible. Only because this reduces frictional head losses in your plumbing. I think the reurn pipe plumbing on AGA tanks is only 3/4" or something like that. I typically turn both holes in each overflow into a drain and have the returns go over the sides coming through larger diameter plumbing so the water doesn't come out at such a high velocity, but with the same amount of gph. __________________ Mike "The Bandwith Bandit" Help Build Reefpedia Premium Membership Available! Support Reef Sanctuary Sponsors

09-19-2006, 01:17 AM	#7 (permalink)
hooked82 Midas Blenny Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arlington, WA Posts: 85 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design I will eventually turn all 4 into outlets and either go with a closed loop or something with the returns going over the back of the glass. But for now the inlets/outlets will work as I just need to get this setup complete so I can get the tank over to my place from they guys place that I bought it from. Also you are correct about the 3/4" inlets. You would still suggest 1-1/4" pvc for those, and restrict at the bulkhead to 3/4"? I really appreciate your input. Thanks.

09-19-2006, 01:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
mps9506 Totally stoked dude Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 7,518 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design I would go ahead and use the 1-1/4" since you plan on changing all for holes to drains anyways. This way in the future when you change the tank return plumbing, you don't have the need to redo the entire plumbing, just where you reduce the plumbing to go to 3/4". FWIW, depending on your budget, it is a lot cheaper to go with 1" plumbing, but if you aren't worried about the cost go oversize. It would be nice if you have the 1-1/4" that you could split to return through a couple of 1" sea swirls or something similar. __________________ Mike "The Bandwith Bandit" Help Build Reefpedia Premium Membership Available! Support Reef Sanctuary Sponsors

09-19-2006, 01:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
hooked82 Midas Blenny Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arlington, WA Posts: 85 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design I will more than likely go with the 1-1/4" PVC as I get a good discount on the stuff. Other than trying to eliminate as many 90's, any other suggestions on basic plumbing for me?

09-19-2006, 03:10 AM	#10 (permalink)
deaclauderdale Obamite Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lancaster,California Posts: 2,153 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design Invest in the duroso pipes they will all but eliminate the sound of water entering the overflows. Other than that it is a great design. Goodluck! __________________ 100 Gal w/ 55 Gal Sump, (2) 250 watt MH's, 220 watts VHO, Fish: Lawnmower Blenny, Pair Ocellaris Clowns, Royal Gramma, Yellow Watchman Goby, Rainsford Goby Coral: Neon Green Candycane, Brown Candy Cane, Purple and Blue Candycane, GSP-green, Palythoas, Montipora Digita (Green and Purple), Montipora Nodosa, Acro's, Neon Green Favia, Sun Coral, Cynaria, Zoanthids Shrimp: Skunk Cleaner Shrimp, 2 Peppermint Shrimp, Tiger Pistol Shrimp Clam: (2) Crocea, That's what I love about saltwater tanks. You get God's best!!

09-19-2006, 07:45 AM	#11 (permalink)
lcstorc Sunshine Reefer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Cocoa Fl Posts: 21,928 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design Another vote for the durso. And I know next to nothing about plumbing. I just know how much it cut the sound coming from my reef. You might want to try to get Kensn on this thread as well. I have seen some great drawings and plans from him. Just a suggestion. Send him a pm and he is likely to respond though I haven't seen him in a couple of weeks. __________________ Peace LYNN You can't change the past but you can change how you view it. A reef tank is like a racecar. The faster you go the harder you crash. Lynn and Franks saltwater adventure Lynn's 20g clown tank Lynn's 90g of sunshine Every 60 seconds you spend upset is a minute of happiness you'll never get back.

09-20-2006, 12:34 AM	#12 (permalink)
Kensn Reef Lobster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Auburn Wa. Posts: 1,252 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design A calcium reactor only needs a small amount of water, I use a Aqua Lifter to supply mine. I would use a dedicated pump for the skimmer and return, good flow in the main display tank should be your goal. One drain to the fuge and one drain to the sump. A smaller pump could be dedicated to the chiller and returned to the display as well for increased water movement. __________________ Ken When the ebbing tide retreats Along the rocky shoreline It leaves a trail of tidal pools In a short-lived galaxy Rush

09-20-2006, 12:52 AM	#13 (permalink)
hooked82 Midas Blenny Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arlington, WA Posts: 85 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design Thanks for the input guys. As far as the durso standpipes, I believe he has them in there already. The tank is really quite, I just dont remember the complete details about the overflows. Kensn: I wont be able to have an overflow to the fuge unless I put that under the tank in the stand, propped up off the ground so that it can overflow into the sump. With the limited space in the closet it will more than likely have to be above height of the overflow(unfortunately). So my plan was to have a small pump, pump up to the fuge and the calcium reactor and the fuge would overflow back into the sump. The skimmer and return will have their own pumps and eventually the return will be a closed loop, but for now will just go back over the overflows. My main concern is to get the tank running, as time will be somewhat limited as I have livestock that will need to go back in. I dont see too much wrong with this, but this is my first plumbing job and my last tank just had an overflow to a sump and a return up over the side. So this setup is quite extravagent comparatively. Appreciate all your guys' comments and suggestions, keep em coming.

09-20-2006, 01:04 AM	#14 (permalink)
Kensn Reef Lobster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Auburn Wa. Posts: 1,252 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design The supply to the calcium reactor is more like a fast drip, it might be hard to get that desired rate with with a teed off pump. A calcium reactor can be a great tool, but needs to be tuned in and constant. If the fuge is going to be that high it would be really great to have it flow directly into the tank so that any pods did not have to travel through a pump. __________________ Ken When the ebbing tide retreats Along the rocky shoreline It leaves a trail of tidal pools In a short-lived galaxy Rush

09-20-2006, 01:48 AM	#15 (permalink)
hooked82 Midas Blenny Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arlington, WA Posts: 85 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Opinion on Plumbing Design Hmm, not sure how I would go about doing that. I am going to get some final measurements of all the equipment and make up a stand and get it all finalized. Then it will be time to go pickup the pvc and create the plumbing. I will see if its possible to get an overflow over the top of the main tank.

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