Macroalgae Question

[NeoSeaWolf]

Hello folks. Quick question on algae.
I have a 3 month old 30g setup, moslty live rock with a stow away anemone of some type and lots of feather duster worms. 5 fish and others (see below).

Anyway, a nice young gal at my LFS gave me two small clippings of macroalgae for my tank. A piece of bubble caulerpa and a piece of kelp vine.
They are both thriving in my tank. The caulerpa grows so briskly that I had to trim it down yesterday. This is in my primary tank mind you (I dont have a refuguim). Is this a bad idea? Ive read the cauerpa can cause toxins and poisioning if it dies. Im thinking of taking that out and just letting the kelp vine stay. I'd appreciate any thoughts.

Here's a video link to my tank so you get an idea of my setup:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YI4u1_vDZio

Martin


*****************
30 gallon acrylic
Orbit Lighting: 2 96watt bulbs, dual day & actinic
No refuguim
CPR packpack skimmer in the mail
Maxijet 900 powerhead
Whisper 30 filter.
40 lbs live sand
15 lbs live rock (I know I need about 40lbs)
Fish: 2 damsels, 3 chromis
Crabs: about 8 hermits
Snail: I huge Turbo (pooping machine)
1 Fighting conch, 2 Nassarius snails

[Kensn]

I would be very careful with the caulerpa, it can spread fast, send trailers everywhere and be very hard to get rid of. If it gets out of hand it can choke off more desirable items. This is why most people keep it in a fuge.... Cheato is a much friendlier macro...

[NeoSeaWolf]

Im taking out the Caulerpa today. From reading other threads on the matter, that girl at the LFS was leading me astray and sabotaging my tanks future significantly. What about the kelp vine? Is that oK to leave for the longrun (I assume I'll have to trim that regularly too eventually. Or should I get rid of that too. My purpose was for them to use of nutrients to reduce other nuisance algae growth.

[boozeman]

ITA, the tendrils are impossible to remove once they become inbedded into the crevices of your rock

[prow]

well its not really all that bad. it does grow very fast. for it to choke out other things you would have to really neglect the tank and never trim it. all macro algea release "toxins", really its just noxious not toxic. anyway if you have a leather coral it releases 10X the amount of noxious chemicals that caulerpa does. so unless you let it over grow and cover you corals it will not cause any real harm. however, some organisms are more sensitive to the noxious stuff, but still its nothing like a leather coral. i have some caulerpa im one of my tanks. with regular trimmings its not a problem. if you have softies, leathers zoo's and things they will not be effected by the caulerpa. most issues that have come up are with sps and people letting the caulerpa grow on it. but again, a leather coral would be more naxious to sps than any macroalgae.

FYI most people that post about caulerpa are just repeating something they read, not from experience. before anyone tries to say its a evil bad weed, lets remember caulerpa has been used longer and more extensive than all other macroalgea put togather.

with all that said, do look out for a mutated strain of caulerpa taxifolia. its a feather type. some guy at the monroe aquarium in the Mediterranean was experimenting with it. it got out and now its devastating certain areas. our government wants to lable all caulerpa as bad. even the the strains native to hawaii. your grape caulerpa is very prolific but not a danger to its tank mates. unless, of course you let grow with out trimming it, it will be fine in there.

[Frankie]

Great info prow. If you keep up on the trimming of the caulerpa and not let it out grow the tank you are ok. You will be removing the toxins and keeping an atractive plant in your tank all at once.
Dont be so hard on the girl at the lfs. She was doing well by you, just not realizing how much atm.

[saltyfishtanks]

i keep many macros in my reef but i must say its a blessing and a curse u must trim and that can be a lot of work believe me i have a hard time keeping them down

But they do a wonderful service in a tank with no skimmer such as i am running

[cheeks69]

I have always avoided keeping macro's in the display, in closed systems with the amount of nutrients available to them corals just can't compete, it's just asking for trouble IMO.

all macro algea release "toxins", really its just noxious not toxic

For some corals it can be deadly.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.u...m.php?news=449

[prow]

well that is talking about heavy growths of macroalgae. (without timming) key words here are heavy growth. also this coral they used is very prone to disease. i will have to wait to read the whole article about their hypothesis on halimeda triggering the white plague type 2. this white plague type 2 does happen all over, even where no macroalgea is present. so i am not sure about their hypothesis. here is a link for ya. some info on the white plague type 2 by eric borneman. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2002/cw.htm never mentions anything about macroalge causeing it.

[cheeks69]

some info on the white plague type 2 by eric borneman. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2002/cw.htm never mentions anything about macroalge causeing it

Eric's article was written in 2002 and this is new research. Also many Coral zones like the ones in the Red Sea are being adversly affected because of an increase of algae due to pollution.

[cheeks69]

Here, we show that physical contact with the macroalga Halimeda opuntia can trigger a virulent disease known as whiteplague type II that has caused widespread mortality in most Caribbean coral species. Colonies of the dominant coral Montastraea faveolata exposed to algal transplants developed the disease whereas unexposed colonies did not. The bacterium Aurantimonascoralicida, causative agent of the disease, was present on H. opuntia sampled close to, and away from diseased corals, indicating that the alga serves as a reservoir for this pathogen. Our results suggest that the spread of macroalgae on coral reefs could account for the elevated incidence of coral diseases over past decades and that reduction of macroalgal abundance could help control coral epizootics.KeywordsCoral disease, coral reef, epizootic, Halimeda, macroalgae, overgrowth, white plague.Ecology Letters (2004) 7: 919–923INTRODUCTION Infectious diseases are now acknowledged as a major force of change in marine ecosystems. They can lead to loss ofkeystone species and alter critical ecosystem processes(Aronson & Pretch 2001; Harvell et al. 2002). There is convincing evidence that they have recently increased innumber, prevalence and virulence in most marine taxa(Harvell et al. 1999; Aronson & Pretch 2001; Porter et al.2001). This trend has been particularly striking among scleractinian coral species. Within the last 30 years, the number of coral diseases has increased from two to 18(Sutherland et al. 2004). Two of the most dominant reef-building corals, Acropora palmata and A. cervicornis, have largely vanished across the entire Caribbean-wide basin as a result of white band and white pox diseases (Aronson & Pretch 2001).More recently, new diseases have inflicted severe losses in a majority of coral species (Sutherland et al. 2004).The growing impact of diseases in the ocean has raised great concern about the factors influencing marine epizootics. Elevated temperature, declining water quality and transport of aeolian dust from Saharan Africa havebeen proposed as potential causal agents of coral diseases(Hayes et al. 2001; Harvell et al. 2002; Bruno et al. 2003).

www.reefcheck.org/news/Newsletter13/disease.pdf

[prow]

lol, the only thing i see there is the bacteria agent causeing it.

The bacterium Aurantimonascoralicida, causative agent of the disease, was present on H. opuntia sampled close to, and away from diseased corals, indicating that the alga serves as a reservoir for this pathogen

a reservoir or its being attacked to and just better protecting itself.

Our results suggest that the spread of macroalgae on coral reefs could account for the elevated incidence of coral diseases over past decades and that reduction of macroalgal abundance could help control coral epizootics.

key words here are suggest and abundance. also, the experiment they did they allowed the halimeda to grow on the coral. like i said before most issues result from people letting it grow on the corals. read through the materials and methods sec page two of the link you gave. even in the title,"algal contact as a trigger for coral disease". here is what is what i said

most issues that have come up are with sps and people letting the caulerpa grow on it.

as they demonstrated in the research. no need to jump and say macroalgae causes it. he just says

a reduction of macroalgal abundance could help control coral epizootics

trimming it, does not even say it will help just it could.

[prow]

look at it this way. if you have a fish that does not get effected by ich but acts as a host, do you say that that kind of fish will cause other fish to get ich? no, only if ich is present and on that fish, right.
so if bacterium Aurantimonascoralicida is not present in the water will the macroalgae cause the white plauge type 2 in corals??

furthermore, the original poster has grape caulerpa not halimeda. to say grape caulerpa will act like its cousin halimeda, based on one experiment of halimeda, is reaching a bit. this same bacteria that doesnt seem to effect halimeda may very well kill his cousin grape caulerpa just like it does certain corals.

[cheeks69]

If you want to use macro in the display that's your choice I don't use and don't recommend it. Certain Macro's particularly Caleurpa can grow at an amazing pace and can quickly overtake a tank, I've seen it many times. If you have the time to constantly trim it than the more power to ya, the problem many times is people with very busy lives can let it ago and because the nutrient levels in a closed system are much higher it provides the perfect environment for algae exlosion.

Wether it serves as a reservoir for a pathogen or it's using it's defenses the fact is the close proximity or the touch can cause coral death which is something I don't want.

[saltyfishtanks]

well well well easy fellas im with prow here macros are a wonderful part of a reef display i love them in my tank but they are not with out work trimming is a must and cheeks is right on the money with that one. like i said before i dont run a skimmer so pulling the macros out of my tank is how i dispose of disolved excess waste as well as water changes of course

in my tank all of my corals have been touched by a macro of some sort and i must say for the most part macros have not bothered them.

but in the case of the bubble corals i have let my macros touch them and had not so good results in the end my bubble corals have suffered

i also must say that the bubble coral lost left behind many pieces of flesh that attached to substrate and are now bubble coral frags some would say that that is not a loss i am one!!