Macroalgae Question

[cheeks69]

in my tank all of my corals have been touched by a macro of some sort and i must say for the most part macros have not bothered them.

I don't think that a simple touch will kill the coral and some lagoonal corals will probably be fine with macro's but that isn't the case with reef building corals. I have seen Acro colonies either bleach or RTN with long term contact with caleurpa.

[prow]

fact is the close proximity or the touch can cause coral death which is something I don't want.

this is not a fact, my point. if it was there would be no coral left in the ocean by now. not trying to bash here just dont like how rumors get spread by exaggerating that leads to unturths. you even said

I don't think that a simple touch will kill the coral

but then you also said

Wether it serves as a reservoir for a pathogen or it's using it's defenses the fact is the close proximity or the touch can cause coral death which is something I don't want.

so i am not sure what your stand on it is here. but one thing for sure is, it is not a fact that close proximity or the touch can cause coral death. by your words you suggest it is and is not a fact.

also you keep talking about caulerpa and sps, which i said is where most issues occur. i agree with sps being sensitive, but to all things, try putting a leather next to a acro colony.

even if you put algae in the sump its still close and all the "toxins and bad bacteria" will be in the water. if the bacteria is in the water the corals will get hurt. its not the algae. also as i said sps are just more sensitive. i have a tank thats been going for over 5 years and it has lps zoos and a couple softies. also in this tank is halimeda and caulerpa sertularioides. this caulerpa is all over hawaii and corals live all around it. there has never been a issue with it damaging corals in hawaii or my tank.

so i would like to ask. have you ever put it in your tank?? did you have any problems with it killing corals? i know 3 people, personally not by internet, that have it in there tank now and none of them have ever had issues. many reefers have it in there tanks by an accident. they only worry about its over growing things never heard of all their corals getting killed by it.

bottom line you have a few guys here in this thread with it in their tank and dont have any issues with it killing corals. so if it does kill corals why are my corals doing great in the same tank as macro's including halimeda? i have two other tanks using caulerpa and all have been going over 3 years. never had any kind of issue.

cheeks69, i have seen you give lots of good help to many, so dont get me wrong, not trying to bash or prove you wrong or anything like that. it just seems in this case you are jumping on the bandwagoon before you really know what is in the wagoon. i know stupid analogy, but you know what i mean, i hope anyway. overgrowing is the issue with macro algae in the tank.

IMO its the mutated strain of taxifolia that started all the bad talk about it. now our government wants to ban all caulerpa. thats like my cousin robbing a bank and then putting his entire family in jail, including me, who have never seen or heard of that cousin or even been in the same country as him, in jail for robbing the bank.

[prow]

o one other thing about the bleaching of corals. you know the recent australia bleaching event. well thats caused by warm waters moving in and the coral secreate there mucus for protection, bacteria feed on it resulting in corals bleaching. so one could say corals are killing corals, or acting as a resivor for the very bacteria that leads to their death and or bleaching F.Y.I. this is type 1 of the same white plague.

[cheeks69]

so i am not sure what your stand on it is here. but one thing for sure is, it is not a fact that close proximity or the touch can cause coral death. by your words you suggest it is and is not a fact.

My stand is if you have SPS corals I would avoid keeping macroalgea in the display plain and simple ! I don't keep them and will not add them to my display. When I said touch I was referring to macroalgea growing around the corals and touching, making persistent contact, I should've made that more clear not a simple touch.

but one thing for sure is, it is not a fact that close proximity or the touch can cause coral death. by your words you suggest it is and is not a fact.

This is what the article said not me : "we show that physical contact with the macroalga Halimeda opuntia can trigger a virulent disease known as whiteplague type II that has caused widespread mortality in most Caribbean coral species"..."The team believes that macroalgae are responsible for many coral wipeouts and suggest controlling macroalgae in order to save corals from white plague".

this caulerpa is all over hawaii and corals live all around it

If caulerpa is growing in the Hawaiian reefs or any other reefs then there's a problem and the reef is on the decline. Healthy reefs are very low in nutrients which allow these corals to thrive.

it just seems in this case you are jumping on the bandwagoon before you really know what is in the wagoon. i know stupid analogy, but you know what i mean, i hope anyway. overgrowing is the issue with macro algae in the tank.

There is plenty of evidence that macroalgae can affect SPS corals, I have seen it with caulerpa peltata and have heard of negative experiences with macro's including Halimeda with SPS. There is very few scientific studies that have been done on this and so I can't give ya clearcut evidence, if macro's are working for ya then that's fine. I'm not telling anyone to or not to just giving my OPINION and I certainly ain't jumping in no bandwagon !

but to all things, try putting a leather next to a acro colony.

Have tried it took several months but eventually lost a Acropora humilis.

[prow]

the thing about the article is they are guessing. perhaps it can trigger it. but it does not cause it. also they say "Caribbean coral species" and the contact they are talking about is growing on the coral.

If caulerpa is growing in the Hawaiian reefs or any other reefs then there's a problem and the reef is on the decline. Healthy reefs are very low in nutrients which allow these corals to thrive.

what ??? Macroalgae is a natural and integral component of coral reef communities around the world. it is a very important part of the oceans ecosystem. macros grow all over hawaii and the rest of the world. macros cover more of the ocean floor, including reefs, than corals.

[cheeks69]

Originally Posted by prow

what ??? Macroalgae is a natural and integral component of coral reef communities around the world. it is a very important part of the oceans ecosystem. macros grow all over hawaii and the rest of the world. macros cover more of the ocean floor, including reefs, than corals.

Brian Lapointe, Ph.D:

Recent research efforts of the Marine Nutrient Dynamics department have continued to focus on assessing nutrient linkages between watersheds and coastal waters. Research in Florida Bay by department scientists has shown that increasing flows of nutrient rich water from the Everglades into the western bay has dramatically enhanced phytoplankton productivity and severely reduced light transmission to photosynthetic seagrass. Recent research has also addressed the effects of septic tank discharge on the groundwaters and surface waters of the Loxahatchee River basin.

Other projects include a recent collaborative effort with SFWMD personnel in developing a Florida Keys water quality plan and the initiation of a project funded by the EPA to monitor and assess wastewater and nutrient discharges in the FloridaKeys.


HARBOR BRANCH "Green Tide" Research Program

Caulerpa brachypus -- Invasive macroalgae species from the Pacific first discovered in Florida waters by Brian Lapointe and colleagues in mid-2001. Species is currently overgrowing sponges, corals and other harmful macroalgae bloom species in northern Palm Beach County. It has been spotted as far north at Fort Pierce and is expected to continue spreading north and south from Palm Beach County, though the area it currently covers has not been determined. Dive operators and fisherman have reported that the species is now becoming so thick it is forcing fish and lobster away from reefs.

Caulerpa taxifolia -- Cousin of Caulerpa brachypus, native to the Caribbean and other tropical seas. In its native regions, where waters are typically nutrient-poor, it grows in small patches and does not pose a problem. In 1989 it was released into the Mediterranean Sea by the Oceanographic Museum of Monaco. Because it is a tropical species officials did not expect it to survive the winter, though one scientist called for removal of the small initial patch that had taken hold to prevent its spread. His warnings were ignored and by the time the problem was recognized it was too late to control. The species now covers over 10,000 acres of the Mediterranean and has caused billions of dollars in damage. The Mediterranean problem is the subject of the book Killer Algae by Alexandre Meinesz. When small patches of Caulerpa taxifolia were spotted in California in 2000, it was quickly destroyed to prevent spread.

Codium isthmocladum -- Species has always been present on local reefs, but before the 1990's was only found in small concentrations. Between 1989 and 1992 it began blooming on reefs in mats up to six feet thick that smothered sponges, corals and other reef life. Though still a problem, much of the Caulerpa isthmocladum on local reefs is now being overgrown by Caulerpa brachypus.

Caulerpa verticillata -- Though prevalent on many reefs now, it had traditionally been found only in nutrient enriched nearshore waters such as around mangroves. Before 1998 it had not been reported on Palm Beach County reefs. Much of the Caulerpa verticillata on local reefs is also now being overgrown by Caulerpa brachypus.
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Stable Nitrogen Isotopes -- One of the key measures Dr. Lapointe will be using to tie the spread of harmful macroalgae species to pollution is stable nitrogen isotopes. Isotopes are atoms of an element that have more or less than the typical number of neutrons, and counting the number of isotopes in a given sample relative to the number of normal atoms in the sample gives a substance's isotope signature. Lapointe's team will be analyzing samples of the various types of macroalgae to determine their nitrogen isotope signature, specifically, they will be measuring the ratio of less common "15N" isotopes to the most common "14N" isotopes. A living organism's signature is similar to that of its nitrogen source. Therefore, if the algae spread is being fueled by pollution the isotope ratios in macroalgae samples should be similar to that of pollution sources from land such as sewage water, which has a higher percentage of 15N isotopes than seawater. In previous work, Lapointe found that macroalgae isotope ratios were closest to pollution around sewage outfalls and near more heavily populated areas.
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How pollution, specifically nitrogen in the form of ammonium is delivered onto reefs:

• Nitrogen in the form of ammonium from septic tanks contaminates groundwater and surface waters, which eventually make their way into the ocean and out to reefs.

• Six ocean outfalls off southeast Florida deliver about 400 million gallons per day of secondarily treated wastewater, which is still high in ammonium, into the ocean at a depth of about 90 feet.

• At Class I injection wells throughout Florida, secondarily-treated wastewater is pumped about 3000 feet below the ground. Class V injection wells pump storm water, rather than sewage, to less than 100 feet underground. Both processes allow inadequately treated and ammonium-rich water to get into especially permeable portions of the aquifer between about 60 and 100 feet down. This aquifer layer runs beneath coastal water and out to where blooms are occurring, where some of the polluted water escapes.

Some researchers have argued that macroalgae blooms are driven by nutrients supplied by deeper ocean water that upwells to shallower areas around reefs at certain times of year. Arguments against this upwelling theory include:

• Nitrogen isotope ratios for macroalgae at reefs in question are typically close to those of sewage and significantly higher than the isotope ratios for upwelled nitrogen.

• There is evidence that macroalgae prefer ammonium, the form of nitrogen common in polluted waters, as compared to nitrate, the form found in upwelled water.

• Sporadic upwelling has always been around, but harmful macroalgae blooms on Florida reefs did not begin until the late 1980's.

http://www.hboi.edu/marinesci/dynamics.html

[cheeks69]

Scott Michael:

The importance of excessive nutrients on algae growth and stony coral health became quite apparent to me on two recent dive trips. The first observation was made in a large bay in New Guinea, where I observed an abundance of Padina, a brown macroalgae that resembles a potato chip. The algae was growing over hard corals, such as staghorn coral (Acropora spp.), and was a conspicuous feature of the area.

According to a friend, the algae was not there the last time he visited the area. Since that visit, however, a palm oil plantation had been set up along the coast and fertilizer from this farm was running off into the bay.

Similarly, on a recent trip to Indonesia I observed that offshore reefs were devoid of algae, while a reef near the mainland that was adjacent to a fishing settlement and the raw sewage it purged, had large stands of macroalgae and few stony corals. I should point out that this inshore reef did have a rich assemblage of soft corals, which was clearly an indication that these animals may not be as sensitive to poor water quality as their reef-building relatives....

...Some aquarists encourage the introduction of macroalgae, such as Caulerpa spp., to help control microalgae nutrients. Although there is validity to this method, I believe Caulerpa can be deleterious in the reef aquarium in that it will smother sessile invertebrates and compete with them for limited nutrients, as well as perpetuate microalgae problems over the long run by collecting detritus with their runners and holdfasts. Also, a reef tank full of Caulerpa bears no resemblance to the healthy reefs that I like to dive on!

Herbivore abundance on a reef also will affect micro- and macroalgae crops, and can be used to prevent microalgae blooms or to control existing growth.

One of the biggest threats is the discharge of nutrients from sewerage or agricultural run-off to enclosed or protected water bodies - we have normally very clear, nutrient-poor waters with low phyto-plankton levels and the local marine life is adapted to that," he says.

"This means our coastal marine systems are driven by the benthic plant communities and they are the seagrasses and the algae. Grasses are in protected lagoons with limited flushing because they need soft sediment to grow in, but algae don't have roots and simply stick onto hard substrate, so nutrient pollution we've seen in Albany harbours and Cockburn Sound has badly affected the seagrass meadows.

"It stimulated algaeto grow in the water and on the leaves of the plants themselves and that cuts light to the chloroplasts so they starve.

"Because of the natural arid nature and poor soils of the state, nutrient pollution is always a major problem.

"As soon as you create hard substrate by removing or killing corals and a living hard thing becomes a dead hard thing, it'll be colonised by algae.

"Usually there are a lot of herbivorous fish around and they are voraciously eating the algae, so you don't find much macroalgae at Ningaloo.

"But in a more temperate setting, with reduced predation by fish and bigger macroalgae, they might shade out corals.

"Which brings me back to that balance at Abrolhos - there's a concern that if coral is damaged, the macro-algae can change the area and corals may not be able to colonise again so you get a phase shift."

"The Caribbean is a good example of that - overfishing caused an explosion in the population of a spiny sea urchin which kept the algae down around corals, then a disease killed off 90 per cent of the urchins.

"Now there were no urchins and no fish and the algae went through the whole reef, smothered the corals and they died. The reefs have gone from coral-dominated 30 years ago to acres of brown algae and of course, when tourism is so vital, it's a disaster.

http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/wf/articles/Reefs.php?0508

[prow]

well you can qoute and read into it if you like. however, what it says actually says the samething i have been saying. he will be fine with it as long as he dose not let it overgrow onto his corals. caulerpa is and has been a part of hawaii's reefs and florida too. the caulerpa i am useing is from the there a native of hawaii; caulerpa sertularioides. the issues in your links are talking about a non-native species overgrowing everything includeing native caulerpas and/or how pollutions have effected areas, causeing algae blooms, no surprise. in our tanks dont pollute it or allow the macro to overgrow, simple.

F.Y.I. caulerpa taxifolia is a native of hawaii too, but it is not invasive like the mutated strain.

[cheeks69]

The only thing I'm trying to show is that in a healthy reef there is very little algae if any, only when there's an increase in nutrients especially due to pollution does algae begin to grow and become a problem impeding light penetration as is happening in the Red Sea and Australia and choking out life eventually destroying the reef.