Calcium buffers, Kalkwasser, and 2 Part Additives!?!

[roadrunner1659]

ok im a little confused now to boomer but i will let you know what i do...and what i have been led to believe is the right way of doing this!?!

From what i understand, i use the kent turbo calcium to raise my ca to the desired level (i was told that i should only have to do this maybe once a week - actually my buddy told me that the container i bought should easily be a year supply since my tank is only 50 gals of total water volume)

...anyway...

then after using the kent turbo ca (and my ca is where i want it to be), i can then use kalkwasser at night on a dip line with my topoff ro/di water...i am under the impression that kalk is used to keep my ca and alk steady and up in the desired levels...along with a few other added benefits.

...this is what i do...am i right or wrong...thanks for the help boomer!

[Boomer]

Your buudy is incorrect You shold not be using Turbo to sup your low Ca needs on a daily or weekly bases, that is no-no. It is NOT a sup. Its only purpose is to boost up the Ca when it is low, like from a salt mix. There are two reasons not to do it the buddy way. 1. Using it this way will increase your chloride level, raise your salinity 2. Calcium chloride is NOT a balanced sup. Only two-parts and kalk are balanced sup and Ca reactors. When ca and Alk are not balanced you run into problems trying to keep them in line.

This will help you understand it better and I will not have to type so much

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.htm

A Simplified Guide to the Relationship Between Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and pH
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php


So you have allot of homework

[roadrunner1659]

hey boomer thanks for the articles...i just finished reading the solving alk and ca problums, and i think that i am getting somewhat of a better undertstanding...from the levels that i got from billy early today (385 ppm ca and 8 dkh) i found that i would be in the number 2 section - which means that i dont need to be adding the turbo calcium...all i need to do is use either a 2 part addative or kalkwasser to raise the 2 in a balanced form...

am i correct so far?

[roadrunner1659]

but what i am not understanding, is how early today i got a reading of 7 dkh and 385 ppm ca from billy and when i test i get 7 dkh and 340 ppm ca? i mean it cant be possible that my ca drops that much...i just there is something wrong with my test kits?

i dont know but i have been messing around with this long enough tonight...im going to bed and i will deal with this tomorrow...

thanks boomer!

[Witfull]

one thing that happens when testing is the drops are not uniform, this can throw the numbers off.

[BHinAK]

Heres 1 more article to read, checkout the section on Magnesium.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

I got a Salifert test kit and the salt I tried out ( I now have the choice of 3 types up here in AK and 1 I'll never use again) had No Nitrates, No phosphates and No Magnesium.

[Boomer]

BHin

Good point

RR

Yes it ma drop if the Mg was way off but I still would like to see the results from the two kits on the same water sample at the same time. IMHO it is a kit problem or the way you use the kit.

[roadrunner1659]

ok well i just want to say thanks for the help guys! i have never tested for magnesium but i would think that it would be kept in check with my weekly water change...not sure though...

i am going to try and take another water sample to billy today, along with my test kits and we'll test the water together...maybe i will also take a water sample to the lfs and see what they say!

[billyr98]

Sorry I wasn't able to meet with ya today, but tomorrow would not be a problem... I have a Sera and Salifert test kits too.. We can try both... But its gotta be the test kits and not your water droping that much in 12 hrs...

[roadrunner1659]

yea i figured this much billy...i went up to ILC today and they tested my ca and alk today with a hagen test kit...my results were 7 dkh and 350 ppm for my ca...so i guess that i know my alk is fine...haha...now i need to get this ca up alittle bit!

[billyr98]

with alk and ca at those levels, you could bring both up a little even..

[roadrunner1659]

hey boomer...question for you...i was looking through one of the articles you supplied above...when i was looking at the solving alk and ca problums, i realized that i fall into section 3...in this section you are advised to use a calcium buffer to raise the ca level...this will put my levels into possible the correct area to have them or into section 2 were all i need to do is a balanced addative to raise them together into the desired area...

also in that article i found a calculator on how to determine how much ca buffer would be needed to raise my levels from 350 ppm to 420 ppm...b/c i have the turbo ca which is caCL2 type, i would need to add 36g or 7 1/2 tsp to my system...

obviously i wont go and dump that into my tank...if it was to be done, i would probably add a safe amount once a day until my levels are in the desired area...

am i learning? or at least on the right track? haha!

[Boomer]

You are doing good RR, now that we seem to know where your Alk and Ca++ are.

use a calcium buffer

Try not to use the term calcium buffer, there is no such thing. It is Ca or Calcium chloride or turbo calcium, there is no buffer in it. A buffer is more or less the same thing as ALK, bicarbonate and carbonate( for us). It stabilizes the pH (acidity/alkalinity) of a solution. But I know what you mean, you are to add Calcium to "buffer", up, raise the Calcium.....

In a system you want the Calcium and Alk to be in balance. This means that if the Ca++ was, 365 ppm & 0 Alk, for each addition of 20 ppm Ca++ we want to add 1 meq / l ( 50ppm or 2.8 dK). So, 385ppm Ca++ and 1 meq / l, 405 & 2 meq / l and 425 & 3 meq / l. These do not have to be exact, just close

You are at 350 ppm and 7 dKH . 7/2.8 = 2.5 meq / l. That Alk is the upper limit to NSW, athough some reefers like to run it up a max of 3.5 Meq /l. You can see by the math that a two part is not a good match if done eqaully.

A two part in eqaul amounts to 420 from 350 / 7 dKH = 420 ppm and 6 meq / l, waayyyyy to high a Alk, which just may pull the Ca++ right back down, especially if the pH was to go up = snow storm . I would raise it up to 390 -400ppm with turbo and then go to the two part in equal amounts. Now it would be 390-400 ppm and 7dKH ( 2.5 meq /l). From here to 420 with a two part, eqaul amounts, gives an alk of 3- 3.5 meq /l or 8.4 - 9.8 dKH

[roadrunner1659]

hey boomer...im glad that im learning! haha! i wanted to make sure i was correct on everything...

currently, my levels are at 350 ppm ca and 7 dkh alk...i wold like to raise my levels up to 420 ppm ca and i guess around 8 dkh (should i have it higher - not sure)

...if i am correct when reading, i only want to raise my ca level around 20 ppm per day?

With the 350 ppm ca and 7 dkh alk, my levels aren't balanced (so at the time being, there is no reason to use a 2 part balanced addative because that will raise my alk to high which could possible lower my ca even further! What i need to do right now, is use the kent turbo calcium until my ca level is around 400 ppm...then when i get there, i can use the 2 part balanced addative to raise my ca around 420!?!

so how does this sound???

also, when dosing the turbo calcium, it reccommends to use 1/8 tsp for lightly loaded tank or 1/4 tsp for heavy loaded tank per 50 gals...i believe that i have a lightly loaded tank with 4 fish in my main 26 gal tank and then a dedicated 26 gal sump/fuge...so my question is, how much should i dose per day?

Thanks for all of your help!

[billyr98]

Wow I learn so much reading Boomers answers!! Thanks Boomer