Anybody have any experience with chemi-clean?

sorcerer · 11-20-2003, 10:04 PM

I've been fighting the ongoing hair algae battle for a while now. Cut back hard on feeding, changed lighting periods, added cleaner crew (lettuce nudis, emerald crabs, more snails, etc.) change filters on the RO/DI unit, double checked for phosphates, etc. etc. I have scrubbed rock and hanged water. All my water params are fine and while many of the steps I've taken have helped reduce the problem, still it persists.

Two friends that have been reefing a world longer than I have recommended Boyd chemi-clean. They have used it without harm to any of the life in their tanks, but did recomend a few things.

1. Put an air stone or two in the tank while using the treatment. Evidently the activity of the product drops the oxygen level and can cause problems if you don't get some extra O2 in there.

2. closely monitor your pH during the treatment as you can have a drop, buffer as needed to help this.

3. Use a little less than the recomended dose, better to be on the safe side.

4. Do at least a 20% water change after 36 to 48 hours, start your skimmer back up, run carbon for a few days to help clear the suspended crap out of the water.

While I value and trust both of these folks opinions, I wanted to see if any of the folks here had any experience, good or bad with the product or any other recomendations for it's use.

TIA

tankgirl · 11-20-2003, 10:15 PM

Just tagging along.

ReefLady · 11-20-2003, 10:15 PM

Walt,

I've never heard of Chemi-clean (or similar products) being effective on hair algae.

These are antibiotics, which are usually used for Cyano, which is a quasi bacteria-algae.

The advice they gave you is good if you are to use this (we actually put Venturi tubes onto our PH's - more effective than an airstone) ... but again, I don't believe an antibiotic will have any effect on hair algae.

Hair algae is a pain - my best recommendation is several small successive water changes, and maintaining good & stable ca/alk/pH levels.

Manually remove as much as you can.

P04 can actually be pretty difficult to test for - and may be there, but not apparent. What kind of foods are you feeding - additives, etc.?

TDS reading on the output water?

Lights not old, right?

Bioload?

I think you've more than likely covered all this, but just double-checking.

sorcerer · 11-20-2003, 10:58 PM

Hey Teri,

You've raised a number of good issues. I was like you in that I had only seen chemi-clean recommended for cyano and I assumed it was an antibiotic. I haven't been able to find anything to confirm that and have seen on a few other forums this and a product called Marine SAT for use with hair algae.

I've been doing regular water changes every week for two months and manually removing tons of the stuff. The biggest impact so far has been the emerald crabs and lettuce nudis. what they have cleared out seems to have stayed gone, only problem there is the nudis keep taking trips down to the sump and the last go round I think they both went into the skimmer pump. The crabs keep working but they don't eat any where near what the nudis were doing.

Bioload should be fine, but I may transfer a couple of fish to the tank at work.

TDS on the output water was 15 but dropped to 001 after I changed the filters and membranes.

Lights are less than two months old, however this did start about the same time I upgraded to MH from VHO & PC.

I feed frozen mysis and cyclopeeze but I have cut back to only feeding a very small amount once a week. Sometimes I add garlic, but haven't in a few months now.

All my levels are stable and seem fine, I run a kalk reactor and that is the only real additive I use.

I'm keeping at the manual removal and water changes and I will wait and see if anyone has any other experiences with the product before I use it. Kinda leery of using a chemical in a reef if I don't have to.

fidojoe · 11-20-2003, 11:00 PM

I say stay away from chemicals, and judging by the name its one that I would definately stay away from. How long have you been having this problem, if it has not been long, the algae will eventually go away. Do you have a fuge? If so any macroalgae in there? The macros will help by competing for the food, and eventually win the battle(hopefully)

sorcerer · 11-20-2003, 11:11 PM

fidojoe,
Been at this about two months solid now, i do have a 'fuge with a healthy growth of calerpa (sp?) and brillo pad macro. The tank is just over a year old. The 'fuge has been up and running from the start. I guess that is part of my frustration in that I grow the grape at a rate that is just plain crazy and don't see how there could be much left for the hair algae to grow on.

fidojoe · 11-20-2003, 11:15 PM

Huh, I'm stumped then, are you sure your test readings are accurate? Have you checked them against other test kits?

sorcerer · 11-20-2003, 11:29 PM

Yep, I'm using Salifert kits and I was worried that maybe age was getting to them, borrowed a set of Lamotte kits from a local reefer and tested, got the same results. He had just gotten his kits a few weeks ago.

EdgeKrusher · 11-21-2003, 12:53 AM

The grape Macro may grow at a great reat, but have you researched on how good of a nutrient exporter it is compared to others? I know some are better than others. Just an idea to look into, I don't have the answer.

Peace

EK

Maxx · 11-21-2003, 12:55 AM

Sorcerer,
I've used Chemi-clean in the past for an annoying cycano outbreak. Worked great, no problems what so ever. I will be honest, the tank didnt have anything wildly sensitive in it at the time though. I wouldnt hesitate to use it again either. The LFS that I go to here in St louis reccommended it, since the owner (the person I was speaking to) uses it on her tank at home, which does have alot of SPS and other delicate critters.
Nick

sorcerer · 11-21-2003, 01:32 AM

Thanks Maxx, I thought I recalled seeing you post about it on another site. Both of my friends have clams and SPS in the tanks they treated and had no problems. I'm oing to try a little while longer on the non-chemical methods before I decide to try it.

Anybody else used this?

sorcerer · 11-21-2003, 11:40 AM

^bump

sorcerer · 11-21-2003, 03:30 PM

^bump

Scooterman · 11-21-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReefLady
Walt,

I've never heard of Chemi-clean (or similar products) being effective on hair algae.

These are antibiotics, which are usually used for Cyano, which is a quasi bacteria-algae.

The advice they gave you is good if you are to use this (we actually put Venturi tubes onto our PH's - more effective than an airstone) ... but again, I don't believe an antibiotic will have any effect on hair algae.

Hair algae is a pain - my best recommendation is several small successive water changes, and maintaining good & stable ca/alk/pH levels.

Manually remove as much as you can.

P04 can actually be pretty difficult to test for - and may be there, but not apparent. What kind of foods are you feeding - additives, etc.?

TDS reading on the output water?

Lights not old, right?

Bioload?

I think you've more than likely covered all this, but just double-checking.

Take her advise, it will work, not overnight though!

wooddood · 11-21-2003, 08:09 PM

im tried it a while back,followed directions and had poor results. my wife bought some[nutrasea marine tank scrubber by custom sealife and in about 3 or 4 days all was gone.i would use it again no question.

11-20-2003, 10:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
sorcerer Court Computer Wiz Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nashville,TN Posts: 252 View Gallery Karma Komment	Anybody have any experience with chemi-clean? I've been fighting the ongoing hair algae battle for a while now. Cut back hard on feeding, changed lighting periods, added cleaner crew (lettuce nudis, emerald crabs, more snails, etc.) change filters on the RO/DI unit, double checked for phosphates, etc. etc. I have scrubbed rock and hanged water. All my water params are fine and while many of the steps I've taken have helped reduce the problem, still it persists. Two friends that have been reefing a world longer than I have recommended Boyd chemi-clean. They have used it without harm to any of the life in their tanks, but did recomend a few things. 1. Put an air stone or two in the tank while using the treatment. Evidently the activity of the product drops the oxygen level and can cause problems if you don't get some extra O2 in there. 2. closely monitor your pH during the treatment as you can have a drop, buffer as needed to help this. 3. Use a little less than the recomended dose, better to be on the safe side. 4. Do at least a 20% water change after 36 to 48 hours, start your skimmer back up, run carbon for a few days to help clear the suspended crap out of the water. While I value and trust both of these folks opinions, I wanted to see if any of the folks here had any experience, good or bad with the product or any other recomendations for it's use. TIA __________________ ------------ walt --------------------- ...and I thought woodworking was an expensive hobby..... 75G Oceanic Reef Tank, 30G Acrylic sump, 12G fuge, AquaC EV-120 skimmer, AquaMedic Kalkwasser Reactor, Mag 12 return pump, FlexiFlow dosing pump. 2-250W AB 10,000K MH, 2 95W Actinic VHO Sorcerer's Home Office Reef - 12G JBJ Nanocube, Minijet 606 pump, 50W heater, 12lbs LR ----------- http://www.reefsanctuary.com/Banners/RS_banner4.gif

11-20-2003, 10:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
ReefLady Golden Moray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 2,031 View Gallery Karma Komment	Walt, I've never heard of Chemi-clean (or similar products) being effective on hair algae. These are antibiotics, which are usually used for Cyano, which is a quasi bacteria-algae. The advice they gave you is good if you are to use this (we actually put Venturi tubes onto our PH's - more effective than an airstone) ... but again, I don't believe an antibiotic will have any effect on hair algae. Hair algae is a pain - my best recommendation is several small successive water changes, and maintaining good & stable ca/alk/pH levels. Manually remove as much as you can. P04 can actually be pretty difficult to test for - and may be there, but not apparent. What kind of foods are you feeding - additives, etc.? TDS reading on the output water? Lights not old, right? Bioload? I think you've more than likely covered all this, but just double-checking. __________________ ~ Teri -------- "You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice."

11-20-2003, 10:58 PM	#4 (permalink)
sorcerer Court Computer Wiz Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nashville,TN Posts: 252 View Gallery Karma Komment	Hey Teri, You've raised a number of good issues. I was like you in that I had only seen chemi-clean recommended for cyano and I assumed it was an antibiotic. I haven't been able to find anything to confirm that and have seen on a few other forums this and a product called Marine SAT for use with hair algae. I've been doing regular water changes every week for two months and manually removing tons of the stuff. The biggest impact so far has been the emerald crabs and lettuce nudis. what they have cleared out seems to have stayed gone, only problem there is the nudis keep taking trips down to the sump and the last go round I think they both went into the skimmer pump. The crabs keep working but they don't eat any where near what the nudis were doing. Bioload should be fine, but I may transfer a couple of fish to the tank at work. TDS on the output water was 15 but dropped to 001 after I changed the filters and membranes. Lights are less than two months old, however this did start about the same time I upgraded to MH from VHO & PC. I feed frozen mysis and cyclopeeze but I have cut back to only feeding a very small amount once a week. Sometimes I add garlic, but haven't in a few months now. All my levels are stable and seem fine, I run a kalk reactor and that is the only real additive I use. I'm keeping at the manual removal and water changes and I will wait and see if anyone has any other experiences with the product before I use it. Kinda leery of using a chemical in a reef if I don't have to. __________________ ------------ walt --------------------- ...and I thought woodworking was an expensive hobby..... 75G Oceanic Reef Tank, 30G Acrylic sump, 12G fuge, AquaC EV-120 skimmer, AquaMedic Kalkwasser Reactor, Mag 12 return pump, FlexiFlow dosing pump. 2-250W AB 10,000K MH, 2 95W Actinic VHO Sorcerer's Home Office Reef - 12G JBJ Nanocube, Minijet 606 pump, 50W heater, 12lbs LR ----------- http://www.reefsanctuary.com/Banners/RS_banner4.gif

11-20-2003, 11:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
fidojoe Fish Addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,581 View Gallery Karma Komment	I say stay away from chemicals, and judging by the name its one that I would definately stay away from. How long have you been having this problem, if it has not been long, the algae will eventually go away. Do you have a fuge? If so any macroalgae in there? The macros will help by competing for the food, and eventually win the battle(hopefully) __________________ *Member "Crabs Are Evil" Society* My Tank: 90g AGA, 18g tall sump, CSS 220 w/ meshmod impeller, 4x54w Tek T5 retro w/ IC reflectors, Kalk reactor w/ aquamedic niveaumat system, a few SPS, LPS, zoos, and a few softies, 2 Ocellaris Clowns (hosted by both a RBTA and GBTA), Yellow Watchman, Potter's angel, Yellow Tang, Foxface, Midas Blenny, Purple Pseudo, huge brittle star, 2 tigertail cukes, fire shrimp, snails, and unfortunately two emerald crabs (the bubble algae got out of control).

11-20-2003, 11:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
sorcerer Court Computer Wiz Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nashville,TN Posts: 252 View Gallery Karma Komment	fidojoe, Been at this about two months solid now, i do have a 'fuge with a healthy growth of calerpa (sp?) and brillo pad macro. The tank is just over a year old. The 'fuge has been up and running from the start. I guess that is part of my frustration in that I grow the grape at a rate that is just plain crazy and don't see how there could be much left for the hair algae to grow on. __________________ ------------ walt --------------------- ...and I thought woodworking was an expensive hobby..... 75G Oceanic Reef Tank, 30G Acrylic sump, 12G fuge, AquaC EV-120 skimmer, AquaMedic Kalkwasser Reactor, Mag 12 return pump, FlexiFlow dosing pump. 2-250W AB 10,000K MH, 2 95W Actinic VHO Sorcerer's Home Office Reef - 12G JBJ Nanocube, Minijet 606 pump, 50W heater, 12lbs LR ----------- http://www.reefsanctuary.com/Banners/RS_banner4.gif

11-20-2003, 10:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
tankgirl Reef Lobster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: So. Ca Posts: 1,476 View Gallery Karma Komment	Just tagging along.

11-20-2003, 11:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
fidojoe Fish Addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,581 View Gallery Karma Komment	Huh, I'm stumped then, are you sure your test readings are accurate? Have you checked them against other test kits? __________________ *Member "Crabs Are Evil" Society* My Tank: 90g AGA, 18g tall sump, CSS 220 w/ meshmod impeller, 4x54w Tek T5 retro w/ IC reflectors, Kalk reactor w/ aquamedic niveaumat system, a few SPS, LPS, zoos, and a few softies, 2 Ocellaris Clowns (hosted by both a RBTA and GBTA), Yellow Watchman, Potter's angel, Yellow Tang, Foxface, Midas Blenny, Purple Pseudo, huge brittle star, 2 tigertail cukes, fire shrimp, snails, and unfortunately two emerald crabs (the bubble algae got out of control).

11-20-2003, 11:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
sorcerer Court Computer Wiz Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nashville,TN Posts: 252 View Gallery Karma Komment	Yep, I'm using Salifert kits and I was worried that maybe age was getting to them, borrowed a set of Lamotte kits from a local reefer and tested, got the same results. He had just gotten his kits a few weeks ago. __________________ ------------ walt --------------------- ...and I thought woodworking was an expensive hobby..... 75G Oceanic Reef Tank, 30G Acrylic sump, 12G fuge, AquaC EV-120 skimmer, AquaMedic Kalkwasser Reactor, Mag 12 return pump, FlexiFlow dosing pump. 2-250W AB 10,000K MH, 2 95W Actinic VHO Sorcerer's Home Office Reef - 12G JBJ Nanocube, Minijet 606 pump, 50W heater, 12lbs LR ----------- http://www.reefsanctuary.com/Banners/RS_banner4.gif

11-21-2003, 12:53 AM	#9 (permalink)
EdgeKrusher Plate Coral Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eden Prairie, MN Posts: 716 View Gallery Karma Komment	The grape Macro may grow at a great reat, but have you researched on how good of a nutrient exporter it is compared to others? I know some are better than others. Just an idea to look into, I don't have the answer. Peace EK __________________ ((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸>< ((((º>¸¸.·´¯`·.¸. `·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.

11-21-2003, 12:55 AM	#10 (permalink)
Maxx Manta Ray Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: St Louis Mo Posts: 3,079 View Gallery Karma Komment	Sorcerer, I've used Chemi-clean in the past for an annoying cycano outbreak. Worked great, no problems what so ever. I will be honest, the tank didnt have anything wildly sensitive in it at the time though. I wouldnt hesitate to use it again either. The LFS that I go to here in St louis reccommended it, since the owner (the person I was speaking to) uses it on her tank at home, which does have alot of SPS and other delicate critters. Nick __________________ "Chaos, confusion, despair...my work is done here." ...Some guy named Murphy.... A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!" Reef Sanctuary Knowledgebase (Answers to all your questions and then some!)

11-21-2003, 01:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
sorcerer Court Computer Wiz Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nashville,TN Posts: 252 View Gallery Karma Komment	Thanks Maxx, I thought I recalled seeing you post about it on another site. Both of my friends have clams and SPS in the tanks they treated and had no problems. I'm oing to try a little while longer on the non-chemical methods before I decide to try it. Anybody else used this? __________________ ------------ walt --------------------- ...and I thought woodworking was an expensive hobby..... 75G Oceanic Reef Tank, 30G Acrylic sump, 12G fuge, AquaC EV-120 skimmer, AquaMedic Kalkwasser Reactor, Mag 12 return pump, FlexiFlow dosing pump. 2-250W AB 10,000K MH, 2 95W Actinic VHO Sorcerer's Home Office Reef - 12G JBJ Nanocube, Minijet 606 pump, 50W heater, 12lbs LR ----------- http://www.reefsanctuary.com/Banners/RS_banner4.gif

11-21-2003, 11:40 AM	#12 (permalink)
sorcerer Court Computer Wiz Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nashville,TN Posts: 252 View Gallery Karma Komment	^bump __________________ ------------ walt --------------------- ...and I thought woodworking was an expensive hobby..... 75G Oceanic Reef Tank, 30G Acrylic sump, 12G fuge, AquaC EV-120 skimmer, AquaMedic Kalkwasser Reactor, Mag 12 return pump, FlexiFlow dosing pump. 2-250W AB 10,000K MH, 2 95W Actinic VHO Sorcerer's Home Office Reef - 12G JBJ Nanocube, Minijet 606 pump, 50W heater, 12lbs LR ----------- http://www.reefsanctuary.com/Banners/RS_banner4.gif

11-21-2003, 03:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
sorcerer Court Computer Wiz Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nashville,TN Posts: 252 View Gallery Karma Komment	^bump __________________ ------------ walt --------------------- ...and I thought woodworking was an expensive hobby..... 75G Oceanic Reef Tank, 30G Acrylic sump, 12G fuge, AquaC EV-120 skimmer, AquaMedic Kalkwasser Reactor, Mag 12 return pump, FlexiFlow dosing pump. 2-250W AB 10,000K MH, 2 95W Actinic VHO Sorcerer's Home Office Reef - 12G JBJ Nanocube, Minijet 606 pump, 50W heater, 12lbs LR ----------- http://www.reefsanctuary.com/Banners/RS_banner4.gif

11-21-2003, 08:09 PM	#15 (permalink)
wooddood the wood dude Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CARMEL. INDIANA Posts: 3,450 View Gallery Karma Komment	im tried it a while back,followed directions and had poor results. my wife bought some[nutrasea marine tank scrubber by custom sealife and in about 3 or 4 days all was gone.i would use it again no question. __________________ 120 gal/in wall tank/starboard substraight/2 250 watt 10k xm metal halides/ 4 55watt 03 actinics/150lbs lr/scwd on return/scwd on a closed loop/aquaclear aquatics 200 pro wetdry w/skimmer. ask all the questions you have if we cant answer it we'll make up some thing. remember patience is the key to a kick ass reef. dave.

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