Mhlle

[leebca]

A few observations:

1. Forget the flake and pellets;
2. Stop feeding brine shrimp (unless it is gut loaded);
3. Read this very long post and learn about vitamins, brine shrimp, etc. along with better foods: Feeding Marine Fish and Marine Fish Nutrition
Read this post about the 'forms' of fish foods to choose: Different Forms of Marine Fish Foods
4. Keep foods stored in freezer or refrigerator as advised in the above posts.
5. Read fish food labels -- if it has land products in it, skip it.
6. You need to do a lot of reading -- those links I've provided before and the two above;
7. Your tank has one or more water quality problems. See the red 'stuff?' Not good. Shows tank has not properly stabilized, not enough circulation inside tank, and perhaps other issues. You have to discover what they are. READ! READ! READ!
8. When you've done the reading, re-read it and begin to follow what it is you've read.
9. For that size aquarium, doesn't seem to be a lot of live rock. But, your stocking is a bit low. Approximately what weight of live rock are you using?
10. Photos not too good -- I hope what I'm seeing is just spots on the outside of the tank -- if not, then the tank is dirty and needs cleaning. Is that Bubble Algae I see all over the place?
11. You don't mention any kind of mechanical filter - unless I've missed it somewhere. How are you filtering dirt from the water column? Is the water crystal clear?
12. Tell us more about inside circulation. How much (gallons) is the tank mixing every hour? This is covered in part in the Water Quality post.
13. I still don't know the magnesium and alkalinity -- two important components needed for a stable pH and water quality.
14. I'm not confident the skimmer has been sized right. Better read that post again on water quality and you determine if you have the right skimmer (NO MATTER WHAT THE SELLER/PACKAGE/INSERT says).

Not sure where or who has given you advice, but I'd say you aren't getting very sound or complete guidance. A tank that old should not be showing the signs I've mentioned above unless you weren't informed about how to do things better. You have catching up to do in order to learn a better way. Can't help you with that other than to provide things for you to read. Now it's up to you. It will be a 'system & procedure makeover' IF you follow through on everything.

I hope you can appreciate that I can't write it all out here for you. . .again. The right information you need is in those posts.

Based upon the additional information you've provided, it is understandable that the fish have deteriorated into their current condition. To return them to health will not be just one thing (like using vitamins), it will mean several changes. Their recovery will depend upon how much effort you want to put into learning and then 'fixing things.'

[Kovu]

Okay the live rock is abou 240 pounds+ the water movement turns my tank 6 times.
I use active carbon in my filtration the water comes out cyrstal clear. And about the skimmer i have now way i can get another one thats all i could afford and i barely got that.
And now that i remeber i think my whole saltwater experience has been a little off i took advice from anyone and i havent found this website, which started to make do things better.
The three things i have done wrong in the 180 tank, was one i went to quickly,2 didnt reasearch anything,3Not getting the right eqquipment first it might of made me think of getting a smaller tank than this but the offer was good 800 dollars for the whole setup and he would deliver it and set up all of the plumbing.
Just thought about something while i was typing the guy that setup up said i could start adding live stock the very next day, man why didnt i think that was possible.
I check my food again they have no land foods in them and my question what is the best food out there.
I will read all of the post two times, when i get back in three hours i have to go to golf practice.
Also should i buy the booaster pump for my rodi unit so I can produce my water faster.

[leebca]

For a FOWLR aquarium you want no less than 8x turnovers of the whole volume per hour. Most of us like to get to 10x or above. So if your tank holds 170 gallons, you want a circulation inside the tank of no less than 1700 gallons per hour.

Once you have this circulation, then you want to 'aim' it in the tank so there are no 'dead spots.' Those red areas are places where there is little or no circulation happening.

You need to check your source water regularly. I suggest you invest in a TDS meter. Not too expensive.

It can be an expensive hobby unless the hobbyist does a lot of do-it-yourself kind of projects for it. It just isn't the initial cost of equipment, it's the on going costs involved, too. So if this is too much for you, it is better to scale down to something manageable where the fish/marine life will have the best care.

The carbon filtration is chemical filtration. I'm interested in knowing the kind of mechanical filtering you use -- filter floss above the carbon, filter sock, canister filter, or ? What catches (filters) the pieces of stuff out of the tank? If you don't have a canister filter doing this, a filter sock, or something, that then will be another bit of equipment you'll need.

I can see now you were in fact very misinformed. It happens to many people, I'm afraid. Catching up isn't fun, plus correcting the things that need it. This post I've linked below, covers what you need (equipment, test kits, etc.) and the setting up of such a system. Even though yours is running, it would be helpful to read this through and learn about some of the things you weren't told about, forgot, or may have missed: Starting Your First FO or FOWLR Marine System

For that tank, I would recommend you change out at least 15% of the water every week OR at least 25% of the water every three weeks. Just be sure your source water production keeps up with that AND makes enough for a 150 gallon change if there should be an emergency.

Micro element water additives are made by a few suppliers (e.g., Kent). Added directly to the water. The above post gives you some idea on this. You can find this at your LFS and also from the people that help sponsor this Forum. That is what they are called, 'micro elements' although the makers give it some catchy name. For a FOWLR tank I add half the recommended (on the label or package) amount and a little less frequently then recommended on the package.

240 is okay. Usual for a FOWLR system is about twice the gallons in pounds. In your case that would be about 350 pounds. As long as you don't put in more fish, the quantity you now have is fine.

The red growing just behind the tank wall, between the substrate and wall tells me you may not be doing routine maintenance on your substrate. You need to clean it every month or so using siphoning or 'vacuum.' It is done in conjunction with a water change, usually. If you haven't been doing this then start slowly. Do only 1/3 of the substrate every three weeks until all the bottom has been cleaned once, then half three weeks after that then the whole bottom about month after that. You don't want to shock the system by doing anything sudden, including making things better.

Are you sure you're reading the food ingredient list carefully for land products? Wheat and glucan are land products. Fish don't digest this. It just adds to the pollution in the water. Be vigilant. Brine shrimp isn't good for our marine fishes -- low in nutrition and remember, they don't come from the ocean.

Since you seem determined to do it right, I think you will be fine and your fish will be well cared for as you get it right!

[Kovu]

First off i dont know if you would consider my toank a fowlr tank because i forgot i have some mushrooms and gsp that was attached to the rock when i bought it, the gsp is spreading like a weed so i guess thats a good thing.
Maybe im not correctly saying my flow amount so i just say all of the pump in my system;Hydor Koralia Pumps:1,1pump,1,2pump,1,3pump,3,4pump,2 penguin powerheads 170gph,2powersweep125gph,2powersweep190,and i think that is a total of 6370gph, which equals 35.388888889 times.
I dont think i want to scale down i think this is something i can do and prove to myself that i can do it.
Tank dosent look good right now because i went to camp for two weeks and trusted my parents with it and i did a 50% water change right before i left,i told them they needed to do a water change but i guess it never got done.
The thing i use to trap the particles is a pillow pad,here is a link:Aquarium Mechanical Filtration Media: Blue Bonded Filter Pads
Would this work for a tds monitor;COM100 TDS Meter :: Meters :: Meters & Gauges :: Buckeye Field Supply, Ltd.
Here is the boaster pump for my rodi unit i was looking at since i have low water pressure;Aquatec 8800 Booster Pump, 1/4" ports :: Pumps & Accessories :: Buckeye Field Supply, Ltd.
Do you think those would work.

[leebca]

The TDS meter is good.

What size piece of that filter pad do you use?

I'm not that familiar with 'booster pumps.' I think the manufacturer of the RO/DI unit will have to say/tell you if that pump is okay. It would be a good idea to contact them and ask that question.

[Kovu]

about a 12 by 14
And by the way your post our long im only done with 2/5 of them and have wrote down about 5 pages of notes on the stuff. Called them and they said i can use the boaster pump.

[Kovu]

just thought this was weird that really only leebca is helping me.

Oh well better one than none.

[leebca]

Not so much that you have one helping you, but you want to know who it is that is helping you. Always you want to know a person's credentials that is helping you. So that you know mine and who I am, these are mine: Lee's Bio (a.k.a. leebca)

It is good Forum etiquette to not post unless you can add something to the thread. So posting, "He/She is right" is not common. If others have some thoughts on this, then they will take part.

To be honest, this thread now may be in the wrong forum. Now that you are working on system ideas, equipment, etc. you probably want to post in another Forum here on Reef Sanctuary. This Forum is for marine fish diseases and treatments, rather than equipment, system setups, etc. That may also be a reason you are not getting much other input here.

Don't hesitate to post your system/aquarium concerns in another Forum here on RS.

Your circulation is good, then I have to say then it is not distributed properly. Those red areas are 'dead spots' where there is little circulation. You need to direct that water flow in all 'dead spots' in the aquarium. Even if the turnover rate is proper, you may still need more circulation if what you have now doesn't stop the dead spots from showing up.

Glad you called the RO/DI manufacturer. They are the best source for deciding if that pump will work with their product.

My posts are long because I try to be very detailed AND try to explain why and the reason(s) for writing what I've written. Hang in there. I want you to not only know the recommendations, but why they were made.

I'm not enthused about the filtration. But if the water is crystal clear, that is a fair choice. If it is really working like it should, it should get dirty and need cleaning out or changing about every 2 to 4 days. If it doesn't require cleaning or changing at that rate, it may not be doing a good job for you.

In general, for that kind of system (which by the way is close enough to a FOWLR system to make most of those posts apply well) you want a filter to remove particles of 100 micron in size. Choose filters that claim to remove that particle size and larger.

So far, so good.

[Kovu]

Alright ill try to make another but does that mean i have to talk about my tank all of again.

[ReefLady]

Kovu,

Most of us here recognize that Leebca is our resident "expert" in terms of fish disease and treatment, so we probably don't feel that we have much to add to his advice. ;-)

If you want to start a thread on other/different issues re: your tank, please feel free, and in that thread, just include a link to this thread (something like *see this thread for tank details*). That way you don't have to explain everything about your setup again.

[DrHank]

I have to agree with Teri. When I have nothing to contribute beyond what others have said, I usually say nothing. When I saw that lee had posted, I knew that all you needed to do was pay attention. You were getting some of the best advice possible.

[Kovu]

Originally Posted by Kovu

just thought this was weird that really only leebca is helping me.

Oh well better one than none.

I was just kidding around about this

[Kovu]

and here is the link to the thread i started:http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...eef-setup.html