Need Serious Help

[breezey1127]

I have already made some previous threads about my situation. I need to create a quarantine tank for my fish but can't find anyone to lend a tank large enough and I dont have the money to buy a large tank ( or several small). I have access to a 20g I can put my shrimp/ snails/ crabs and some of my rocks in (I have no corals). If I do this then can i do the hyposaline method on my display tank. I've read that this method can kill live rock and if necessary I can take all my rocks out. Can I still preform hyposaline if I still have my sand in my tank? I know the tank should be bare bottom but the sand would be impossible to take out. How does this effect the procedure. I don't seem to have any other options... please help.

[cindyp]

what are you trying to get rid of ???

[breezey1127]

ich. Sorry I should have said that

[ReefLady]

Why can't you use the 20g as the Q tank? I'm not sure how many fish you are talking about.

You don't want to use hyposalinity with live rock, and it may kill the beneficial micro fauna in the live sand. Inverts definitely cannot take hyposalinity.

Do you possibly have access to a large rubbermaid stock tank you could use for the Q tank?

[breezey1127]

The 20g is way too small. I have 11 fish two of them being a butterfly and a tang. I can take the rocks and inverts out... It is just the sand. I suppose I can scoop out some of the sand and put it in the 20 gal. If my live sand does die in the display wouldn't everything come back to life after I put my live rock and the sand I took out back in. What major problems could I run into if my sand dies? If its like having to start my aquarium all over again, I think that is better then losing my fish. I do have large rubbermaid containers. Im just scared too put a heater on them and I dont like not being able to see what is going on inside.

[ReefLady]

If my live sand does die in the display wouldn't everything come back to life after I put my live rock and the sand I took out back in. What major problems could I run into if my sand dies?

I think this would work, as long as there was not enough die off in the DT to cause a mini-cycle. I'd just watch the A/N/N closely.

I do have large rubbermaid containers. Im just scared too put a heater on them

I didn't mean regular rubbermaid containers, but rubbermaid stock tanks. They are very sturdy and there are no issues putting a heater in them. We used one for our sump and also our refugium on our 180g tank. Here's a pic of one:



But yes, you still have the issue of not being able to see through them.

[breezey1127]

Another plus with using my display tank is that I dont have to wait for my tank to cycle and I wouldnt have to worry about stressing my fish out in the transfer (or catching them :S). I would just take out my powerheads, rocks, inverts, as much sand as I could. Turn off my lights and take everything out of my filter except for the sponge (Would I put new sponge in?). Another question is where do i buy a refractometer? Am I missing anything else?

[lcstorc]

You can buy a refractometer from most on-line fish supply stores but I'm not so sure this method will work. The parasite has a number of cycles only one of which is when they are on the fish. With this method the parasites will fall into the sand and then re-attach to the fish as they progress through their life-cycle.

[breezey1127]

Ohh.. I thought hyposaline killed all stages of ich. So does it just kill the free swimming stage and when it is attached to the fish? Wouldn't it be true if we can wipe out at least one of the 4 stages, we can remove the parasite from our tanks completely? If the ich was in hypo salinity wouldn't it be impossible to complete its reproductive stage once it does drop off of the fish regardless if there was sand in the tank or not? Someone please tell me if that is wrong.

[Neptunesghost]

The problem with Hypo is, the ich can tolerate a lower salinity than the fish.

[Neptunesghost]

There is a great thread that gives detailed instructions on clearing up ich. It takes several weeks, and it is a long read, but well worth it.

Considering the alternative, I would at least have a look.

[Neptunesghost]

Marine Ich - Myths and Facts

[breezey1127]

which thread? by leebca? I've read them and he recommends copper or hyposaline or are you talking about a different thread.

[breezey1127]

opps, I guess I type too slow. Yes Ive read that about 4 times now lol. He says that the hyposaline method works 100% if done correctly. Where did you read that ich can tolerate a lower salinity than fish?

[breezey1127]

Now Im more frustrated than ever. I emailed the university I go to asking about a refractometer and someone writes me back and says this...

"I'm not sure how experienced a fish keeper so I will will note that the hyposaline method is almost as likely to kill your fish as it is to help it. The main problem with ich is when it attacks the gills of the fish, the body infection is normally more an irritant and site for secondary infection than anything of immediate harm. Placing the fish into a hyposaline dip MAY cause the parasite to exit the host, or possibly kill some of the parasites, however it will not solve your problem since you have now stressed the fish far more and the parasite still exists within your aquarium (certain life stages reside within the substrate). Your best method of treatment is to set up a quarantine tank, with no substrate, a heater adjusted to a slightly elevated temperature (this speeds up the parasite life cycle and increases the fishes immune response), and a filter with no carbon. You can reduce the salinity to this tank gradually to a level of around 1.015 (on the hydrometer and refractometer I set salinity to 1.021). If you wish to use a drug to treat then go for something like clout, it tends to work well. You should do daily water changes on the quarantine tank and possibly consider the same for your main tank, to try to remove the parasites from the substrate. Since your increased temp. will speed up the parasite life cycle you have more chance to remove free living parasites from the quarantine tank and your fish's immune system will hopefully help guard off reinfection to some extent. It is also a good idea to aerate the water as much as possible, so additional air bubblers and or power heads are recommended to keep the surface of the water moving. AquaNation may be able to get a refractometer in for you ( I worked for them when they were still Aqua Creations) however it's hard to say, and they may have to order it in, which may take a few weeks. Pets Unlimited will unlikely have them, and is less likely to order one for you (I also worked for them at one point)."

I have no idea who is right and who is wrong. I have no idea what I should do!!! I really don't want to give up on my fish but im so confused