Qt

[Lee]

Originally Posted by kathywithbirds

I"m curious what people will say about getting fish from a REALLY GOOD supplier who has a policy of QTing... lets pick on Drs Foster and Smith... and skipping your own QT.

Do you trust their QTing, esp. if you don't have room or time or don't trust that a QT will have stable enough water?

Foster and Smith rarely keep their own fish... They come from national suppliers, so no, I wouldn't trust ANY supplier's QT procedures.

Still, I'm one of those people who believes that most wild fish will carry at least some traces of many diseases/parasites in the wild, and they're always going to be there at SOME level, and the key to keeping them from causing problems and killing your fish is providing your fish with a healthy living environment so their immune system can keep those diseases and parasites at bay, and NOT keeping them in a 6 week quarantine.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by kathywithbirds

So Lee, what do you do for new fish?

I have a 55g that I set up as a QT sorta and it sorta turned into a FOWLR. I feel OK using meds in it if I have to. Haven't had to, thank god.

In chronological order:

My clowns and chromis went straight into the tank. They were the first. Followed a bit later by a Cardinal, no QT for any of those.

1) Yellow tang went in QT for about 2 weeks. Looked good (as in, no parasites visible), but was very very inactive the entire time. He thrived immediately after putting him in the display, ate 2x as much, swam more, etc. Healthy ever since.

2) Blue Hippo tang went into QT, died overnight.

3) Replacement Blue Hippo tang went into QT, died in about a week, spent most of his time laying on his side.

4) Flame Angel went in QT for a little over 2 weeks. Showed obvious ich after about a day or two in QT, treated him for 3-4 days with some ich medication, and put him in the display after about a week and a half of no symptoms. No symptoms since.

5) Yellow Belly Hippo Tang would not have survived in the display if I put him straight in there due to a shipping mishap. But he really did not do well in QT. Didn't move at all except to hide from me when I tried to look at him. He spent about 90% of his time in the corner, nose to the glass, sitting on his belly, not moving. I'd have to stare at his gills to see if he was still breathing. The first day was terrible, as he was pretty banged up from shipping. He calmed down after a day or so, but still never swam at all, and barely ate. Ammonia was near 1ppm after 2.5 days. Last night I decided enough is enough, he is not happy, so I put him in the display after less than a week. This morning he was swimming freely, his color has darkened several shades, and he was even eating Nori off the clip! My yellow tang was bullying him a little last night, but he still looks 10x better than he was alone in QT. Probably because he was swimming in his own toilet.

[Woodstock]

I would be most interested to know how the QT water tested (ammoia, nitrite, ph, temp, salinity) for the above. I am 99% certain it was poor water conditions or disease that killed the fish and not the QT itself. There are many variables involved in the above situations.
Adding new fish directly to your display is just a ticking time bomb... you will eventually get a wide spread disease without QT'ing new addtions.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Woodstock

I would be most interested to know how the QT water tested (ammoia, nitrite, ph, temp, salinity) for the above. I am 99% certain it was poor water conditions or disease that killed the fish and not the QT itself. There are many variables involved in the above situations.

I completely agree, and I wasn't necessarily implying that the 2 hippos died strictly because of quarantine, (in fact, I don't think either did) I was mainly just pointing out that I've never had happy fish in QT. Their health always drastically improves when they are placed into the cycled and established tank.

All I'm saying is that I think that water conditions in an un-cycled tank bring about a very very high level of stress on fish, and people don't make a point of that. And if you are going to QT a fish in an un-cycled tank, you should be prepared to to 10% water changes daily, and water tests daily. None of the guides I read emphasize that at all.

Adding new fish directly to your display is just a ticking time bomb... you will eventually get a wide spread disease without QT'ing new addtions.

I agree; there are always consequences to this kind of carelessness, but the same applies to quarantining fish. I don't think people place enough emphasis on water conditions of a quarantine. Sometimes people talk as if plopping your new fish in a separate tank for a month is the key to its health and happiness, and I would argue that it is not. Good water, food, shelter, and swim room is the key to its health and happiness. I also think that an un-stressed fish can fight diseases and outbreaks better than a fish trapped in a 10 gallon tank with a piece of PVC and 1ppm of ammonia, so if you're going to quarantine, I say do it right, use a cycled tank that can break down fish waste. If you have to treat him, THEN use a hospital tank with no bio-filter.

I also don't think that any set amount of time is going to make a fish suddenly reveal any hidden diseases. Maybe if he's in QT and is more stressed, the diseases are more likely to show themselves quicker... If I had a QT tank that was cycled and livable, I would have no problem doing lengthy quarantine's. But I don't, and my living situation right now doesn't permit it, so I'd rather not take shortcuts and possibly harm the fish from lengthy exposure to ammonia just for the sake of getting in a 6 week quarantine. See where I'm coming from?

[lcstorc]

I see your point but there are many things you can do to increase the success of your qt.
The first one is to always keep a couple of sponges in your sump to gather the essential bacteria. When you set up the qt put one of the sponges in there to start with some good bacteria.
The second thing I do is watch parameters very closely and do a large number of big water changes. When in QT I generally do 50% water changes twice a day as well as treat the tank with Amquel which makes the amonia nontoxic.
IMO it is very important but often ignored part of the hobby. Proper QT would save the life of many of our fishey friends.
You do want to make it as comfortable as possible with hiding spots and keeping the tank in a low traffic area and partially or totally covered on all sides to reduce stress.

[DML08]

wow thanks for all the replies... my qt tank has been set up for 4 weeks now. and I've been doing 10% water changes 2 times a week. I'm planning on gettin some new additions at the end of the month.. but I want these guys to go into qt (scared of a outbreak) I'll test my water parameters 2night and post them...(QT)..

[Lee]

Originally Posted by lcstorc

I see your point but there are many things you can do to increase the success of your qt.
The first one is to always keep a couple of sponges in your sump to gather the essential bacteria. When you set up the qt put one of the sponges in there to start with some good bacteria.
The second thing I do is watch parameters very closely and do a large number of big water changes. When in QT I generally do 50% water changes twice a day as well as treat the tank with Amquel which makes the amonia nontoxic.
IMO it is very important but often ignored part of the hobby. Proper QT would save the life of many of our fishey friends.
You do want to make it as comfortable as possible with hiding spots and keeping the tank in a low traffic area and partially or totally covered on all sides to reduce stress.

Amen. Couldn't have said it better. But unfortunately, i think many (most) don't follow quarantine procedures this well. I know I didn't, mostly because I just didn't know.

It just seems to me that quarantine procedures that most follow or are advised to follow are way to lax .

So anyone looking to QT a fish the right way, read the post I quoted!

[Lee]

Originally Posted by DML08

wow thanks for all the replies... my qt tank has been set up for 4 weeks now. and I've been doing 10% water changes 2 times a week. I'm planning on gettin some new additions at the end of the month.. but I want these guys to go into qt (scared of a outbreak) I'll test my water parameters 2night and post them...(QT)..

Don't do what I did, just set up your QT and do it the right way!

Hopefully when I buy a house, I can have a good QT tank setup that will work the way I think they should... But hopefully my fish will live long and I wont need it.

[DML08]

thats why I've had the qt set up for weeks now.. I want that thing to cycle.. like I said I only been doing 10% WC a week.. when I have fish I'll start doin the WC daily... now what about putting coral's in QT? or just do a coral dip before putting in main tank?

[kathywithbirds]

That's the way to do it... have a designated sump room with a constantly going QT tank -- a good sized one, with a filter of some sort (LR or no might be a question) and a place for beneficial bacteria to be in constant supply. That would solve a lot of the water quality maintenance issues I think. And the convenience of having all fish supplies and quick water for changes would be a huge plus too.

Now I just need a house with the right layout...

[DML08]

me and the wife share a hobby room at our house... i get half for my office/qt tank. and she gets the other for her scrapbook room! it works out..

[lcstorc]

Originally Posted by DML08

thats why I've had the qt set up for weeks now.. I want that thing to cycle.. like I said I only been doing 10% WC a week.. when I have fish I'll start doin the WC daily... now what about putting coral's in QT? or just do a coral dip before putting in main tank?

As Doni found out you really need to QT corals as well. She went through the whole QT copermine thing as described but added new corals to the display. As soon as the fish went in the DT she had another outbreak. Now anyhting in water gets a QT before entering her DT.

[Woodstock]

Originally Posted by lcstorc

As Doni found out you really need to QT corals as well. She went through the whole QT copermine thing as described but added new corals to the display. As soon as the fish went in the DT she had another outbreak. Now anyhting in water gets a QT before entering her DT.

Yep, hind sight is 20/20!! As Lynn mentioned, I added a few corals from a local reefer's tank to my reef tank while it was undergoing an 8 week fallow period.
I had to remove my fish again to treat for brooklynella/ICH, I contacted the "frag guy" to ask what type of fish he had in his coral tank; he mentioned that it did not have any fish because they died.... even his damsel had 'mysteriously' died after having it for a few years

You never know what may be attached to the corals, rocks, snail shells, etc... so QT anything 'wet. Better safe than sorry!

[DML08]

how would you go about QT'ing a coral? is just the same/time period as fish? what kind of meds would you use for a coral?

[Lee]

I would think that what I've been preaching in this thread is 10x more important when QTing corals.