Trying to save a tang...

Rye_84 · 03-28-2008, 08:52 PM

So I am trying to save a tang that this guy had. He didn't have any extra aquariums to put it in to treat it. It has some pretty bad ich. I figured since I have a few extras that I would set up a QT for it and nurse it back to health. I was wondering what would be the best treatment for the tang. I have copper but it is not recommended for tangs. My other thought was hypo. What do ya'll recommend? I'll try and get some pics posted once he is done acclimating to the QT.

Dentoid · 03-28-2008, 09:13 PM

One advantage to hyposalinity treatment is that the fishes osmoregulatory system doesn't have to work so hard to maintain cellular homeostasis. In essence it allows the fishes system to route energy into healing and immunity.

Take a look at this thread.

A Hyposalinity Treatment Process

vdituri · 03-28-2008, 09:13 PM

I have no expertise to pass on to you. I wish I did.
But I do think its great you are willing to help this fish.
I hope it pulls thru.

Rye_84 · 03-28-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dentoid

One advantage to hyposalinity treatment is that the fishes osmoregulatory system doesn't have to work so hard to maintain cellular homeostasis. In essence it allows the fishes system to route energy into healing and immunity.

Take a look at this thread.

A Hyposalinity Treatment Process

I will take a look at that. Does it explain the words you just used?

Rye_84 · 03-28-2008, 09:38 PM

So after reading some more on hypo it says that the slightest traces of copper can become toxic. I have used copper in this tank before and its the only one that is large enough for the tang. Do you think I should try hypo or should I just dose copper in the tank? or should I go out and get a different medication?

Dentoid · 03-28-2008, 09:44 PM

Basically osmoregulation is keeping water and dissolved solutes in balance across a semipermeable membrane. Water wants to move across a semipermeable membrane to the side with the highest dissolved solutes, ie the saltwater side. Fish cell walls are like a semipermeable membrane but they contain biological pumps that maintain a balance between water in their cells and external dissolved solutes. This is called active regulation. Since fish live in a hypertonic solution (saltwater) their cells and kidneys have to expend energy to pump salt out of their cells so that they don't dehydrate.

These "biological pumps" if you will require energy to do their masterwork and by lowering the salinity of the fishes environment their cells don't have to work as hard. In a healthy fish, osmoregulation is a piece of cake and marine fish have evolved to handle the stresses of dissolved solutes in their environment. However, a sick fish is taxed for energy as it tries to fight off disease. In a case of active regulation-vs-disease-vs-immunity, active regulation is going to win while the fish dwindles to the disease.

leebca · 03-29-2008, 08:35 AM

In response to your original post -- it depends. If the fish is quite infected with many visual signs of the Trophonts, use a copper treatment after a freshwater dip. Your post seems to imply the fish has been ill for some time and if this is the case, it should be treated with copper before the parasite is allowed to get a greater foothold on the fish.

The only copper medication I know of that is safe for these kinds of fishes is Cupramine. Please review this post: Copper - Treatment, Use, Problems

If the fish is exhibiting very few Trophonts or the assumption that this fish has been ill for quite some time is wrong, then I would embark on the hyposalinity treatment. See this post: A Hyposalinity Treatment Process

Good luck!

Rye_84 · 03-29-2008, 10:32 AM

He is covered and it isn't pretty. I started a copper treatment already on him last night. I figured too, that hypo would take a little longer then I wanted it to. So, I plan on attacking it hard to get rid of the majority of the ich and then try the hypo if needed.

Rye_84 · 03-29-2008, 10:57 AM

Here are some pictures of the tang. The fish always seems to be hanging in the flow from the power head, so it makes me think he needs more circulation. He is a tang. However, when I add more flow he hides in the corner. Should I just leave the flow the way it is? or should I increase it. Right now there is just a 125 gph pump going.

leebca · 03-29-2008, 11:52 AM

My preference is just to keep no more flow than a bubble corner filter would provide. Intakes have a habit of hurting sick fish that don’t deal with the strength of the intake very well.

I think you’ve made the best choice, going with copper. I just hope you’re using Cupramine.

What is that rock made out of? Hopefully it has no carbonate or component that will bind the copper and interfere with the treatment.

03-28-2008, 08:52 PM	#1 (permalink)
Rye_84 Fire Coral Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 63 View Gallery Karma Komment	Trying to save a tang... So I am trying to save a tang that this guy had. He didn't have any extra aquariums to put it in to treat it. It has some pretty bad ich. I figured since I have a few extras that I would set up a QT for it and nurse it back to health. I was wondering what would be the best treatment for the tang. I have copper but it is not recommended for tangs. My other thought was hypo. What do ya'll recommend? I'll try and get some pics posted once he is done acclimating to the QT.

03-28-2008, 09:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
Dentoid Over Achiever Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 10,239 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Trying to save a tang... One advantage to hyposalinity treatment is that the fishes osmoregulatory system doesn't have to work so hard to maintain cellular homeostasis. In essence it allows the fishes system to route energy into healing and immunity. Take a look at this thread. A Hyposalinity Treatment Process __________________ Scott Dentoid's Reeforama

03-28-2008, 09:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
vdituri Excellent Guesser :D Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 5,719 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Trying to save a tang... I have no expertise to pass on to you. I wish I did. But I do think its great you are willing to help this fish. I hope it pulls thru. __________________ Victor ----- People come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime. When you know which one it is, you will know what to do for that person. When someone is in your life for a REASON, it is usually to meet a need you have expressed. They have come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you physically, emotionally or spiritually. They may seem like a godsend and they are. They are there for the reason you need them to be. Then, without any wrongdoing on your part or at an inconvenient time, this person will say or do something to bring the relationship to an end. What we must realize is that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled, their work is done. The prayer you sent up has been answered and now it is time to move on.

03-28-2008, 09:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
Rye_84 Fire Coral Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 63 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Trying to save a tang... So after reading some more on hypo it says that the slightest traces of copper can become toxic. I have used copper in this tank before and its the only one that is large enough for the tang. Do you think I should try hypo or should I just dose copper in the tank? or should I go out and get a different medication?

03-28-2008, 09:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
Dentoid Over Achiever Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 10,239 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Trying to save a tang... Basically osmoregulation is keeping water and dissolved solutes in balance across a semipermeable membrane. Water wants to move across a semipermeable membrane to the side with the highest dissolved solutes, ie the saltwater side. Fish cell walls are like a semipermeable membrane but they contain biological pumps that maintain a balance between water in their cells and external dissolved solutes. This is called active regulation. Since fish live in a hypertonic solution (saltwater) their cells and kidneys have to expend energy to pump salt out of their cells so that they don't dehydrate. These "biological pumps" if you will require energy to do their masterwork and by lowering the salinity of the fishes environment their cells don't have to work as hard. In a healthy fish, osmoregulation is a piece of cake and marine fish have evolved to handle the stresses of dissolved solutes in their environment. However, a sick fish is taxed for energy as it tries to fight off disease. In a case of active regulation-vs-disease-vs-immunity, active regulation is going to win while the fish dwindles to the disease. __________________ Scott Dentoid's Reeforama

03-29-2008, 08:35 AM	#7 (permalink)
leebca Tuxedo Urchin Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: So CA Posts: 292 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Trying to save a tang... In response to your original post -- it depends. If the fish is quite infected with many visual signs of the Trophonts, use a copper treatment after a freshwater dip. Your post seems to imply the fish has been ill for some time and if this is the case, it should be treated with copper before the parasite is allowed to get a greater foothold on the fish. The only copper medication I know of that is safe for these kinds of fishes is Cupramine. Please review this post: Copper - Treatment, Use, Problems If the fish is exhibiting very few Trophonts or the assumption that this fish has been ill for quite some time is wrong, then I would embark on the hyposalinity treatment. See this post: A Hyposalinity Treatment Process Good luck! __________________ LEE

03-29-2008, 10:32 AM	#8 (permalink)
Rye_84 Fire Coral Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 63 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Trying to save a tang... He is covered and it isn't pretty. I started a copper treatment already on him last night. I figured too, that hypo would take a little longer then I wanted it to. So, I plan on attacking it hard to get rid of the majority of the ich and then try the hypo if needed.

03-29-2008, 10:57 AM	#9 (permalink)
Rye_84 Fire Coral Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 63 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Trying to save a tang... Here are some pictures of the tang. The fish always seems to be hanging in the flow from the power head, so it makes me think he needs more circulation. He is a tang. However, when I add more flow he hides in the corner. Should I just leave the flow the way it is? or should I increase it. Right now there is just a 125 gph pump going.

03-29-2008, 11:52 AM	#10 (permalink)
leebca Tuxedo Urchin Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: So CA Posts: 292 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Trying to save a tang... My preference is just to keep no more flow than a bubble corner filter would provide. Intakes have a habit of hurting sick fish that don’t deal with the strength of the intake very well. I think you’ve made the best choice, going with copper. I just hope you’re using Cupramine. What is that rock made out of? Hopefully it has no carbonate or component that will bind the copper and interfere with the treatment. __________________ LEE

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