A fallow tank

[Scuba Steve]

Hi reeflovers

I have to say this passion of ours is the most frustrating, confusing and constant source of dissallusionment I can think of. Everyone has a different idea of right and wrong and defends their "system" to the max. Which leaves many of us beginners in a constant state of bewilderment. Having said that, when things are going well there are few things more satisfying. I could go on but but recognise that this is probably not the place so I will seek your advice.

Having suffered a strain of Whitespot that has all but decimated my fish population I have decided to allow my tank to sit fallow for a number of weeks to try and ensure I eradicate this curse of a desease. Can someone please advise with any sort of authority, if whitespot or ich can survive on invertebrates including coral banded shrimp and various snails? Or do I need to remove these from my tank as well?

I have no interest in killing any more fish so I have decided if I can not be 100% certain I have been successful in eradicating this desease from my tank then I fear I must choose another hobby which hopefully will instil in me the same amount of passion.

Regards

Steve

[Woodstock]

(moved to saltwater diseases & treatment)

Steve, I am in the eXAact place. I too have removed my fish (for a second time) to allow the main display a fallow period. The first time I left it for 8 weeks (but added corals during that period) and my fish broke out in ICH after a weeks time back in the display! Ughhh!
I am now treating them all again in a hospital tank and will leave the main display fallow for at least 8 weeks.
However, I am VERY interested in hearing what others have to say about the length of fallow period. Hopefully Leebca will chime in

[DrHank]

Ick is a fish disease and will not harm your inverts. The fish is the host. Without a host it will die. Leaving your tank fallow is the best way to eradicate it. You may also want to consider a QT for all new fish to make sure that you do not unintentionally reintroduce it in the future. Some folks advocate hyposalinity treatment of all new fish before moving them to the display tank.

Honestly, there is nothing in this hobby that is 100% certain other than you will spend lots of money. As you know though it is highly rewarding when things are going right and an absolute nightmare when problems are encountered. Good luck with your eradication efforts.

[Woodstock]

Quarantine, quarantine, quarantine, quarantine, quarantine.... So important!

[lcstorc]

I most often read 8 weeks is enough for the parasite to die but Doni's recent problems have convinced me it is a good idea to wait even longer. The ich could have come in on the corals or not. We can never be sure.
Good luck with you efforts and don't give up. As you know this hobby is extremely rewarding when you have a beautiful reef to enjoy,

[leebca]

Steve,

I understand your frustration. The diversity in marine system designs is one of the attractions for some in this hobby. To new people asking "how" or "what do do" they will find many view points. Some may be better than others, but usually no marine system is 'wrong' when it works!

As previously stated, Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) (MI) does not infect invertebrates. It needs a marine fish to complete its life cycle and without a fish available, the parasite will die off. Marine Ich has no stage in its life cycle where it can stop, halt or otherwise go into hibernation to wait for a host -- it MUST find a host or die.

More information here: Marine Ich - Myths and Facts

8 weeks leaving a tank go fallow is long enough. Some at my level of knowledge and experience suggest 6 or 10. The point is: When the tank goes fallow NOTHING is added to the tank -- not even invertebrates or coral. Although they don't get infected with MI, they can still bring MI into the system vis a vis the water they are in. So, if the hobbyist adds something to the marine system (e.g., a coral, or a shrimp, etc.) during a fallow period, the 8-week count down starts over again.

I've read much literature, old and current on Marine Ich (MI). I have done college research on this parasite. I have cured a few thousand fish of this disease and, I have kept marine aquariums totally free of this parasite since 1970. You can trust the information I've provided in the above referenced post.

Good luck!

[Scuba Steve]

Hi

I wish to sinerely thank all of the above members for their replies. You have answered queries for me regarding the addition of anything during this period. Some further information:

I tried hyposalinity with disastrous results. Fish skin peeling and bulging bodies followed by death.All this despite my lowering the level to 1.009 over several days, to be on the safe side, and not hours like I have read. Also I kept a constant check on PH and other water parameters alas to no avail. The only thing I did have in the tank was live rock but I have also read that this should be okay. As a result I have otally lost any confidence in this method.

I had originally planned to leave my tank fallow for 6 weeks but maybe now I will make it 8.

A point of interest: My LFS owner whom I do trust implicitly, A rare thing these days, insists he has had success with Myxazin but it failed me. He also insists that whitespot cannot survive past 2 weeks without a host????? He does not abdicate the use of hyposalinity at all. He also is very skeptical about information gleaned from these forums. I realise he has more reason to take this stance as I'm sure he appreciates the money I spend on his premises, however, he seems very genuine and I have known him a long time. Maybe I am just a sucker. Although my experience has certainly confirmed his reluctance with hyposalinity.

Again thankyou for all your replies. I appreciate them so much.

Kindest Regards

Steve

[DaveK]

"I tried hyposalinity with disastrous results. Fish skin peeling and bulging bodies followed by death."

What species of fish were you treating? There are a few species that don't tollerate hyposalinity very well.

As for Myxazin, I tend to be skeptic. The only other treatment that I know of, that works, besides hyposalinity, is copper. This is a lot more dangerous to use. Either one should be done in a quarantine tank.

A lot of times, what can occur with this disease, is that it seems to go away on it's own. I believe this is caused when a fish with the disease is placed into a reef environment, and because of the high quality water, and some "native foods" on the LR, it quickly becomes a lot stronger and more resistant to the parasite. The you don't see the disease, but it's still there. Then if you introduce another new fish, you see and outbreak, even if the new fish didn't carry the disease.

[Scuba Steve]

I like your theory DaveK. At least it sounds logical anyway. The fish he lost include:

Flame angel
Yellow Tang
Sailfin Tang
Clown Fish

There were others but I cannot recall. There was one survivor....a green wrasse whch seemed unpeturbed about the whole ordeal.

[leebca]

All on that list handles hyposalinity down to 11ppt quite well, for up to 10 weeks.

Hyposalinity requires a lot of human effort. With a low buffer, the water quality can 'go south' easily. pH is one of the hardest to control, since the water isn't buffered properly. In a quarantine or hospital tank, the biological filter may stop or halt their activity until they adjust to the new salinity, adding possible rises in ammonia and nitrites to the equation.

[cheeks69]

My LFS owner whom I do trust implicitly, A rare thing these days, insists he has had success with Myxazin but it failed me. He also insists that whitespot cannot survive past 2 weeks without a host?????

Well if he was right then you wouldn't continue to have this problem. I don't think that based on what he believes you should continue to trust him implicitly. When I treated with hyposalinity I did use a small amount of LR and a HOT skimmer and had no problems. Now I know that all the inverts on the rock died but I believe it helped.

[Scuba Steve]

Does my q tank need a skimmer during hyposalinity and should I run carbon? Also how often should I check the parameters of the water?

[kathywithbirds]

Hey Steve

I'm too much of a newbie to offer advice but I will say that with the infinite number of variables that exist in a reef tank it might be nigh unto impossible to know absolutely everything that goes on in your tank unless possibly you're a marine biologist. But the people here have offered sounder advice than I've gotten from LFSs and I've tried different stuff in different situations (read: "experimented" on my fishies, hopefully not to their detriment!!) based on different advice, and what worked best was the info I got here.

So don't get discouraged, just examine what's going on and try your best to keep your critters healthy, that's all they can ask.

[Woodstock]

Originally Posted by Scuba Steve

Does my q tank need a skimmer during hyposalinity and should I run carbon? Also how often should I check the parameters of the water?

You will be doing LOTS (daily or every other day) of water changes during hyposaline conditions so a skimmer is not needed. You should test the water twice a day and have a PH monitor if possible. Read this: A Hyposalinity Treatment Process

[cheeks69]

Originally Posted by Scuba Steve

Does my q tank need a skimmer during hyposalinity and should I run carbon? Also how often should I check the parameters of the water?

If you have alot of fish and are unable to daily W/C's then yes I would, your certainly not going to need it on your display if it's fallow. How big is your QT ? Another benefit of using the skimmer on the QT is the increase of oxygen levels. You should check your ammonia levels daily and I would get something that could detoxify ammonia like Ammono-Lock.