Groupers and Ich

tbittner · 01-16-2008, 08:17 PM

I had read that Groupers typically don't get Ich. I have no idea if that's true or not, but it seems to be the theme when I research these big boys. So anyway, I bought a Minatis Grouper. BEAUTIFUL FISH! I have him in QT where he will stay for a while.

My concern! If it's true that Groupers typically don't get Ich then could they be carriers? How do I know that it's safe to move my Grouper over to our 150g predator tank and he won't infect the others with something nasty?

Octoman · 01-16-2008, 08:22 PM

From WWM -

"Should your system succumb to an infectious or parasitic disease, your Cephalopholis will be amongst the last to show signs or perish from same. This fish can catch the usual reef scourges (ich, velvet), but is very rarely a carrier. Like most basses they're easily treated for such problems with common medications and environmental manipulation (e.g. hyposalinity). "

C.miniata

leebca · 01-17-2008, 04:55 PM

Groupers and Sea basses (many varieties) are the fishes quite often used in Marine Ich studies. The studies use microscopic examination to track the parasite, since these fish don't readily display the disease.

In the wild it has been found that a low percentage of these fishes have Marine Ich. It is usually found in their gills. Their immune system and hardiness seem to place them out of reach of dying from this parasite, unlike our more 'fragile' marine ornamental fishes.

On the other hand, Dr. Burgess, in the early 1990's did some research and thought he had a group of bass totally Marine Ich free and that had never had it, but the antibody investigation showed that his 'control group' actually had Marine Ich at some time in their lives. The number that had been infected at some time previously -- 50%.

tbittner · 01-17-2008, 04:59 PM

Thanks Mark and Lee. Now, how do I know that the Grouper that I have isn't infected and it's safe to place him into the predator tank? Is there any way to know that it won't bring an Ich infestation with it and infect my other fish? Should I go ahead and treat it with Ich treatment?

I have it in a 55g QT tank for now.

leebca · 01-17-2008, 05:11 PM

Tough call. I know you shouldn't treat a fish unnecessarily, but the Grouper sp. is a pretty difficult fish to get to display. I think I would go ahead and put it through a full copper treatment to take care of many of the ciliated parasites. I would however only use Cupramine medication, and the Salifert Copper Test kit to keep the copper in the right range. It's just a 14-16 day treatment.

tbittner · 01-17-2008, 05:41 PM

Excellent! Thanks Lee!

zy112 · 01-17-2008, 06:30 PM

I havnt read the studies but I can say i had a panther grouper for almost three years that stayed very healthy. Hope he still has a good home as I returned him to an LFS when my 180 came down.

tbittner · 01-17-2008, 06:43 PM

How big did he get in three years?

I believe the one I got, a Miniatas, is one of the smaller species. Supposedly only gets to 12" in the aquarium environment. We just fed him and the articles I read weren't kidding. A flash of red and the food is gone! And I mean a flash.

This fish is SUPER fast.

zy112 · 01-17-2008, 06:46 PM

I got him as a baby. Very small. I would say around 10-12". He ate thats for sure

zy112 · 01-17-2008, 06:47 PM

But yea a mitiatus shouldnt get that big that fast...in reference to the panther.

01-16-2008, 08:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
tbittner Watch this Ma! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 5,562 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Groupers and Ich I had read that Groupers typically don't get Ich. I have no idea if that's true or not, but it seems to be the theme when I research these big boys. So anyway, I bought a Minatis Grouper. BEAUTIFUL FISH! I have him in QT where he will stay for a while. My concern! If it's true that Groupers typically don't get Ich then could they be carriers? How do I know that it's safe to move my Grouper over to our 150g predator tank and he won't infect the others with something nasty? __________________ Terry 150g predator tank full of killers. Soon to be upgraded to a 360g. 450g reef 300g sump.

01-16-2008, 08:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Octoman Majano Slayer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 1,254 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Groupers and Ich From WWM - "Should your system succumb to an infectious or parasitic disease, your Cephalopholis will be amongst the last to show signs or perish from same. This fish can catch the usual reef scourges (ich, velvet), but is very rarely a carrier. Like most basses they're easily treated for such problems with common medications and environmental manipulation (e.g. hyposalinity). " C.miniata __________________ Mark My tank thread... http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/...-euphoria.html Tank build... http://55reef.blogspot.com/

01-17-2008, 04:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
leebca Pistol Shrimp Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: So CA Posts: 272 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Groupers and Ich Groupers and Sea basses (many varieties) are the fishes quite often used in Marine Ich studies. The studies use microscopic examination to track the parasite, since these fish don't readily display the disease. In the wild it has been found that a low percentage of these fishes have Marine Ich. It is usually found in their gills. Their immune system and hardiness seem to place them out of reach of dying from this parasite, unlike our more 'fragile' marine ornamental fishes. On the other hand, Dr. Burgess, in the early 1990's did some research and thought he had a group of bass totally Marine Ich free and that had never had it, but the antibody investigation showed that his 'control group' actually had Marine Ich at some time in their lives. The number that had been infected at some time previously -- 50%. __________________ LEE

01-17-2008, 04:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
tbittner Watch this Ma! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 5,562 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Groupers and Ich Thanks Mark and Lee. Now, how do I know that the Grouper that I have isn't infected and it's safe to place him into the predator tank? Is there any way to know that it won't bring an Ich infestation with it and infect my other fish? Should I go ahead and treat it with Ich treatment? I have it in a 55g QT tank for now. __________________ Terry 150g predator tank full of killers. Soon to be upgraded to a 360g. 450g reef 300g sump.

01-17-2008, 05:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
leebca Pistol Shrimp Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: So CA Posts: 272 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Groupers and Ich Tough call. I know you shouldn't treat a fish unnecessarily, but the Grouper sp. is a pretty difficult fish to get to display. I think I would go ahead and put it through a full copper treatment to take care of many of the ciliated parasites. I would however only use Cupramine medication, and the Salifert Copper Test kit to keep the copper in the right range. It's just a 14-16 day treatment. __________________ LEE

01-17-2008, 05:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
tbittner Watch this Ma! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 5,562 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Groupers and Ich Excellent! Thanks Lee! __________________ Terry 150g predator tank full of killers. Soon to be upgraded to a 360g. 450g reef 300g sump.

01-17-2008, 06:30 PM	#7 (permalink)
zy112 Harlequin Tuskfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: IN Posts: 984 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Groupers and Ich I havnt read the studies but I can say i had a panther grouper for almost three years that stayed very healthy. Hope he still has a good home as I returned him to an LFS when my 180 came down. __________________ Zach

01-17-2008, 06:43 PM	#8 (permalink)
tbittner Watch this Ma! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 5,562 View Gallery Karma Komment Add yours!	Re: Groupers and Ich How big did he get in three years? I believe the one I got, a Miniatas, is one of the smaller species. Supposedly only gets to 12" in the aquarium environment. We just fed him and the articles I read weren't kidding. A flash of red and the food is gone! And I mean a flash. This fish is SUPER fast. __________________ Terry 150g predator tank full of killers. Soon to be upgraded to a 360g. 450g reef 300g sump.

01-17-2008, 06:46 PM	#9 (permalink)
zy112 Harlequin Tuskfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: IN Posts: 984 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Groupers and Ich I got him as a baby. Very small. I would say around 10-12". He ate thats for sure __________________ Zach

01-17-2008, 06:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
zy112 Harlequin Tuskfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: IN Posts: 984 View Gallery Karma Komment	Re: Groupers and Ich But yea a mitiatus shouldnt get that big that fast...in reference to the panther. __________________ Zach

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