What now? Ich 3 gone How long do I wait?

[Bikinibottom]

My blue tang and black damsal aemone blue starfish and snails are what I have left.

How long before I can put new fish in the tank?

[lcstorc]

I hate to be the one to say it, but there is ich in your system and it will remain there untill/unless the tank is left without fish for 6-8 weeks.
Fish however can and sometimes will live through a bout with ich. They can even develop a partial immunity.
So in answer to your question you can add fish whenever you like if the existing fish seem healthy and happy and you have good params and room in your bio-load.
Just realize that any new fish you add will be immediately exposed to ich. Many times this happens during wholesale procedures as well which is why we recommend you quarrantine new fish to begin with.

Looking at your fish and tank size you are starting to come close to max on recommended bio-load (1 adult fish inch per 5g water). Keep the fish additions as few and as small as you can,

HTH

[AQTCJAK]

I would suggest a UV to prevent further out breaks

[leebca]

AQTCJAK,

Be careful about the choice of words. UV doesn't prevent a Marine Ich outbreak. It will reduce the likelihood of a bloom of the free swimming parasite, but it can't/won't prevent the disease.

The UV only affects parasites that pass through the unit and it is not necessary for the parasites to go through the unit before finding a fish to infect.

[AQTCJAK]

Originally Posted by leebca

AQTCJAK,

Be careful about the choice of words. UV doesn't prevent a Marine Ich outbreak. It will reduce the likelihood of a bloom of the free swimming parasite, but it can't/won't prevent the disease.

The UV only affects parasites that pass through the unit and it is not necessary for the parasites to go through the unit before finding a fish to infect.

If your system is setup correct with proper UV & flow through it you will have a parasite free tank. Ever since the addition to UV's in the industy I have ran them on my systems & I have never had Ich in any of my systems. I have fish that are easily infected with ich that stress for no reason & no ich. I do choose my words very well in 20+ in the hobby & 4 years owning a store I do really well with my advise

[leebca]

Sorry AQTCJAK. What you've written doesn't match a very large tome of scientific knowledge, experience, and tests performed on home marine aquaria.

Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) is light sensitive. Most of the 'pregnant' Trophonts (the white spot on the fish -- the only part of the cycle we see with the naked eye, and then only when on the fin or body) usually come off the fish at night. That is why most hobbyists think it has 'gone away' the next morning.

At night most the fish are hiding and usually low or near the substrate of the tank. These Trophonts encyst and in the Tomont stage multiply, releasing many free swimming Theronts. The Theronts stay on and near the substrate in part to keep away from light. The next evening when the fish take refuge into the rocks near the substrate, the Theronts infect fish.

The only stages of this life cycle that is suspended in the water column are the Theronts and Tomonts. These (unfortunately) do not remain in the water column long enough to get them all through the UV.

Still, it is acknowledged that a UV on a system will lessen any probable bacterial bloom and any large bloom of parasites of the protozoan size, providing the UV energy and flow rate through the UV is slow enough to effect sterilization of the water.

I appreciate your experience, but it is not supported by actual lab trials, research, and home aquaria results. You'll find what I have written above about UV in ornamental marine articles, marine books, and marine system reference manuals. The circulation cannot be great enough in a substrate, LR marine system to prevent and cure Marine Ich. I've tried. If you have setup bare bottom, with little or no decorations in the marine system, with a very high flow, there is a chance the UV will work as you suggest. But this is not the setup in a normal home aquarium, with up to 20x circulation, nor would it be an asolute guarantee to defeat Marine Ich.

I have now been in the hobby since 1968, that is 39 years. and I'm degreed in Microbiology and Chemistry with 3 years college research on Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) with grant money from the aquaculture industry at Ohio State University. In the '70's I ran and co-owned a marine LFS, setting up aquariums in the central Ohio area. I iimported marine fishes and had The Phillippine collectors use nets back then. However, I find that credentials are not as important as having access to supporting information. Marine Ich has been studied for more than 100 years now and a lot of information is known about it.

For additional information on Marine in the water column and UV treatment, you can further read the following:
From: ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site - Reference - Marine "Ich"

As discussed above, C. irritans spends very little time in the water column. After dropping off the host fish, Trophonts head straight to the substrate to reproduce. This may take as little as 30 minutes but could extend to 24 hours (Cheung et al., 1979). Burgess and Matthews (1994b) found that significantly more Trophonts left their host during darkness while fish are resting. This would greatly decrease the chances of Trophonts being swept away from the substrate. These two factors combined almost rule out the possibility of Trophonts being collected with natural seawater.

From: Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

Ultraviolet sterilizers work by damaging most anything in the water column that passes through them. Their effectiveness is dependent on the wattage of the unit, the flow rate through the unit, the age of the lamp, the volume of the water being treated, the cleanliness of the sleeve, the clarity of the water, and the decorations (potential hiding spots for Tomonts) in the aquarium (Moe, 1989). Colorni & Burgess (1997) discuss the use of UV. They extrapolate from a previous study done on freshwater Ich, Ichthyophthirius multifiliis, and UV (If you are so interested, the original article is Gratzek, Gilbert, Lohr, Shotts, and Brown's 1983 piece "Ultraviolet light control of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis in a closed fish culture recirculation system." It can be found in the Journal of Fish Diseases volume 6 pages 145-153). In the study, they showed UV could prevent the spread of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis when used on a central system, but could not affect a cure within an individual aquarium. Colorni and Burgess believe the same would hold true with Cryptocaryon irritans. I would concur with them as my own personal/professional experience has demonstrated the same. I have found UV's to be very effective in bare bottom tanks, primarily in retail and wholesale operations. In display aquaria, the volume of the tank, the substrate and rockwork, the flow rate of the UV, and the wattage all work against its effectiveness. In commercial operations, many times, employees wipe down bare bottom tanks daily to maintain a clean appearance for customers. This has the added benefit of knocking loose the cyst stage of the parasite. The bare bottom, minimal decoration, high flow rates, and massive UV units on these systems ensure that most all the cysts and Theronts pass through the sterilizer and are neutralized.

If those reading this post will additionally look up the references given within the above two quotes, you'll find scientific evidence that stipulates that UV does not cure nor prevent protozoan infections in the home aquarium system. Readers may also look in current publications, or speak with professional aquarists.

I would not wish to have new hobbyists thinking that UV will 'do the trick.' This is mis-information. All they have to do, if they don't believe this post, is to obtain the published research papers mentioned in the above quotations.

I am very open to new research and evidence to the contrary. If you'd provide some published scientific references to support your observations I'd be happy to review it and/or send it off to veterinarian college professors for their evaluation.

[prow]

i have to agree with leebca, most of the Trophonts that come in on the fish are in the gills, others mostly end up where the fish sleeps and reinfect while sleeping. impossible to treat any in gills, they lie in wait for the right conditions, usually associated with stress in the fish, to hatch. many of the free swimming Tomites either find a fish or just die off, never getting exposed to the UV light. but the UV light does help big time on keeping any outbreaks in check.